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rank our last 5 coaches

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spark mandrill

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2023, 12:55:06 PM »
Lon gets a lot of credit, rightfully so, because he inherited a mediocre program with an empty cupboard post sanctions and still won with them.  He did get one year of Kiwane.

86-64 (57%) and .500 in conference the five years before he took over - those results would slot in at the bottom of that list of 5 coaches.

The flip side of that is Weber, who inherited a top-10 program and left a top-50ish program behind him, maybe.

He had a 'mediocre record' that was a massive improvement over the program he inherited.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2023, 12:59:32 PM by spark mandrill »
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2023, 03:04:57 PM »
Lon's overall record was mediocre, marked by inconsistencies, and peaks and valleys everywhere he coached. Not just at Illinois.
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spark mandrill

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2023, 03:25:51 PM »
Lon made the Final Four at two different schools and the Elite 8 at three.  Illinois isn't on either of those lists.  He was a great coach no matter where he was.

At Kansas State he took over a program that had been 56-59 (18-37) with no tournament appearances in the four years before he got there.  He won 64% of his games overall, 61% of his conference games in four years with four tournament appearances and an Elite 8.

Florida is probably where he did the worst job, but he still took over a program that had been 7-21 (3-15) the year before with an empty cupboard, and made two tournaments there in 6 years with a Final Four.

Illinois had been 73-49 (59%) and 38-34 (52%) in conference with no tournament wins in the four years before he got there.  He won 63% overall and 58% of his conference games in four years, including three tournament wins.  He also, obviously, recruited some of Self's best teams at Illinois.

UNLV had missed four straight tournaments when he got there, with Spoonhour winning 55% of his conference games.  Lon won ~70% of his games there over 7 years including 65% of his conference games, and made 4 out of 7 tournaments with a S16, their first since Tark left.

Oklahoma was 9 games under .500 in the last two years of Capel's tenure and Lon won 60% of his games there over 10 seasons including 7 appearances in 9 held tournaments and a Final Four.

Pretty much everywhere he's gone, he's taken over a program in the gutter and left a program that was contending for tournament success.  This notion that his results were mediocre just isn't found in evidence.
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2023, 07:42:10 PM »
Lon Kruger won 61% overall. That is the definition of mediocre results. Now, I know a lot of lot of people would be happy with mediocre results if it meant 2 final fours. He also played an exciting style of ball, with pressure d, and a fast break offense with transition threes.  His personality was also appealing. He still was 674–432 (.609) as a college coach.

Lon went 25-9 and 11-3 with an E8 his 2nd year at K-State. His 4th and final season there: 17-15 and 7-7; lost in the first round.

His 4th year at FL, he was 29-8 and 12-4; went to the Final 4. His 6th and final year;  12-16, 6-10, no postseason.

At OK, he was 29-8, 12-6, with a Final 4 his 5th year.  His 10th and final final year he was 16-11, 9-8, with a 2nd round loss.

Peaks and Valleys.

His best run was 7 seasons at UNLV 161–71 (.694) with A S16 his 3rd season.
 
Overall WP Comparisons subject to review:

BS: 787–237 (.769)
DM: 151–66 (.696)
HC: 316-150 (.678)
BU: 223–106 (.678)
LH: 779–412 (.654)
GB: 647-353 (.647)
BW: 497–302 (.622)
LK: 674–432 (.609)
JG: 296–201 (.596)
HS:  89–77. (.536)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 08:57:54 PM by illiniray »
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2023, 07:54:58 PM »
Here is an exciting little known fact. There are photographers named Doug Mills and Bruce Weber
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spark mandrill

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2023, 09:08:31 AM »
Just ignore all context to make a hall of fame coach out to be mediocre.

Never change, nichi.  I know he coached in the last 60 years, but that doesn't mean he was mediocre despite reality.

The amount of context you have to ignore to pull his pure winning percentage, plug your ears, and yell "mediocre!" is staggering.

Safe to assume you think Lou Henson's results were mediocre too?  He won 4% more games despite spending about twice as many years at low- and mid-major schools, and had a worse tournament record than Kruger.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 09:45:58 AM by spark mandrill »
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Lkdog

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2023, 10:41:39 AM »
I ran into a pretty high level AAU club director this week. He said he has known Underwood for decades since his juco coaching days.
Thinks the present roster issue at PG is pretty crazy. Says what you see from Underwood is pretty accurate. LOL.

FWIW I would have to go:

Self
Kruger
Weber
Underwood
Groce

Both UW and Weber pretty flawed interpersonally. Both had some high peaks here.
Overall total coaching record Weber much better when you factor in NCAA tourney, but Underwood has time to turn it around.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 10:47:10 AM by Lkdog »
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illinicalvin

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2023, 10:50:43 AM »
Winning 60% of your games makes you a top 50 program all-time. Considering he did that at multiple schools with sanctions or tournament droughts it's far from "mediocre." It's more impressive than what Mark Few has done.
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Jobu

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2023, 11:08:39 AM »
Yeah, 61% career winning percentage is not mediocre.
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ThePAMan

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2023, 11:27:45 AM »
I disagree with Nichi. Yet, I think the information he provided showing how Lon would reach an apex at each program that he could not sustain was interesting and informative.
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2023, 02:31:04 PM »
Quote from: Jobu on June 20, 2023, 11:08:39 AM
Yeah, 61% career winning percentage is not mediocre.

I must have higher standards than you?  It's certainly not great. I have a hard time calling it good. Is 59% mediocre?  Lou Henson won 59% post Gill, Liberty, and Bardo. That got him retired.

Last year, Underwood won 61%. Most agree that was a mediocre / fair to middling season. Some consider it a failure. If he continues at that rate, he'll need deep runs in the NCAA to save his job.
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ILLINICHIEF

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2023, 03:17:37 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 20, 2023, 02:31:04 PM
I must have higher standards than you?  It's certainly not great. I have a hard time calling it good. Is 59% mediocre?  Lou Henson won 59% post Gill, Liberty, and Bardo. That got him retired.

Last year, Underwood won 61%. Most agree that was a mediocre / fair to middling season. Some consider it a failure. If he continues at that rate, he'll need deep runs in the NCAA to save his job.

Lou was always likable as well...not sure BU is, and not sure that he needs to be. That said, I think he HAS to do something BIG this year in order for the rumors to not start flying.
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ThePAMan

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2023, 03:21:06 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 20, 2023, 02:31:04 PM
I must have higher standards than you?  It's certainly not great. I have a hard time calling it good. Is 59% mediocre?  Lou Henson won 59% post Gill, Liberty, and Bardo. That got him retired.

Last year, Underwood won 61%. Most agree that was a mediocre / fair to middling season. Some consider it a failure. If he continues at that rate, he'll need deep runs in the NCAA to save his job.

You do not think any of the "drama" associated with the basketball program helped get Lou Henson fired?
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2023, 07:16:06 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 20, 2023, 03:21:06 PM
You do not think any of the "drama" associated with the basketball program helped get Lou Henson fired?

The BP drama and 2 year probation contributed to mediocre results his last 6 seasons; which led to a forced retirement. It was the results though. He wasn't forced out in 1990. He lasted 6 more seasons.

Other factors contributed. Like not adjusting to the changes in the recruiting landscape.
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Reacher

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2023, 06:00:31 AM »
Quote from: Lkdog on June 20, 2023, 10:41:39 AM
Says what you see from Underwood is pretty accurate. LOL.

Don’t think I’m understanding this comment.
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