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Future schedule

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spark mandrill

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2023, 10:42:24 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 21, 2023, 10:07:29 AM
What is the timing on the departure?

After a first round tournament loss this year as a 7-11 seed.

One thing is it seems like a lot of people are still thinking this is 10 years ago, when firing or losing your coach still meant the cupboard was as full as he left it.  If Underwood leaves or is fired, we will almost certainly have to start from zero.  Everyone will leave.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2023, 04:48:06 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 21, 2023, 10:42:24 AM
After a first round tournament loss this year as a 7-11 seed.

One thing is it seems like a lot of people are still thinking this is 10 years ago, when firing or losing your coach still meant the cupboard was as full as he left it.  If Underwood leaves or is fired, we will almost certainly have to start from zero.  Everyone will leave.

Whether that matters depends on who is left and if anyone cares.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2023, 04:52:24 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 21, 2023, 10:05:18 AM
If he were to leave or be fired, what do you guys think the chances are that we get someone with a comparable resume to what Underwood had when we hired him, or comparable to what he had now?

To respond to your question, at year end, I think it would be someone stronger in potential. Given his age, unsure about how the resumes could be comparable. Don't you think coaches will look at the potential here with the alleged NIL money Illinois has floating around? Illinois has not seen the impact of NIL when hiring a basketball coach yet.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2023, 05:16:11 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 21, 2023, 04:52:24 PM
To respond to your question, at year end, I think it would be someone stronger in potential. Given his age, unsure about how the resumes could be comparable. Don't you think coaches will look at the potential here with the alleged NIL money Illinois has floating around? Illinois has not seen the impact of NIL when hiring a basketball coach yet.

Sure - I mean, I don't think Illinois' resources have ever been the issue.  I don't think anyone doubts that Illinois has a huge, great fanbase and that if you're good here it will be an amazing place to coach - and that the administration/boosters will for the most part be willing to pony up the resources you need to do that.

I don't think anyone doubted that when we hired Underwood either though.

I do think some coaches recognize that our fans cut both directions, and are quick to turn on guys even when maybe a little patience is warranted/earned.  I think some variation of that notion has been an issue with us in the past.  And also, just like in recruiting players, sometimes there's just some unseen force working against you, like a wife not wanting to move to Champaign, etc.

It's kind of like a blue blood or an NBA job in that expectations are very high no matter the context, but Illinois doesn't really have the history or sell of a blue blood.  It's not like there was ever a period in our history where we went on a Calipari type run - we've played in two Final Fours since these recruits' grandparents were born, for the most part.  Maybe NIL will turn the whole notion of a blueblood on its head though, as you kind of allude to.

I do not think we're likely to pull a Musselman or Miller type hire, regardless of the resources.  If we do end up moving on from Underwood, I hope I'm wrong - both guys have shown the ability to win at a high level.  I just think it's far more likely we get the next mid-major up and coming guy, which doesn't really have the best track record.

People here sell me like some Underwood worshipper, but really what I am is someone who wants Illinois basketball to succeed.  If we move on, I'll move on too - but right now the guy's won 70% of his games in the Big Ten over the last three years.  The notion that we'd be considering firing a guy like that, especially given the program he inherited here, is just completely foreign to me.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2023, 05:32:02 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 21, 2023, 05:16:11 PM
Sure - I mean, I don't think Illinois' resources have ever been the issue.  I don't think anyone doubts that Illinois has a huge, great fanbase and that if you're good here it will be an amazing place to coach - and that the administration/boosters will for the most part be willing to pony up the resources you need to do that.

I don't think anyone doubted that when we hired Underwood either though.

I do think some coaches recognize that our fans cut both directions, and are quick to turn on guys even when maybe a little patience is warranted/earned.  I think some variation of that notion has been an issue with us in the past.  And also, just like in recruiting players, sometimes there's just some unseen force working against you, like a wife not wanting to move to Champaign, etc.

It's kind of like a blue blood or an NBA job in that expectations are very high no matter the context, but Illinois doesn't really have the history or sell of a blue blood.  It's not like there was ever a period in our history where we went on a Calipari type run - we've played in two Final Fours since these recruits' grandparents were born, for the most part.  Maybe NIL will turn the whole notion of a blueblood on its head though, as you kind of allude to.

I do not think we're likely to pull a Musselman or Miller type hire, regardless of the resources.  If we do end up moving on from Underwood, I hope I'm wrong - both guys have shown the ability to win at a high level.  I just think it's far more likely we get the next mid-major up and coming guy, which doesn't really have the best track record.

People here sell me like some Underwood worshipper, but really what I am is someone who wants Illinois basketball to succeed.  If we move on, I'll move on too - but right now the guy's won 70% of his games in the Big Ten over the last three years.  The notion that we'd be considering firing a guy like that, especially given the program he inherited here, is just completely foreign to me.

I am not sure I agree on the resources. It took some time to get up to speed on facilities, didn't it? NIL has the potential to make this a whole new ball game though.

I think maybe you are more "content" than a "worshipper" and more concerned about being burned with another Groce or Beckman. I think more often than not the problem was not the person who was hired (but should not have been), but the person doing the hiring.   
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spark mandrill

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2023, 05:40:01 PM »
So you're saying we need someone who will hire coaches more like Ron Guenther?

 ;D
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ThePAMan

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2023, 05:51:57 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 21, 2023, 05:40:01 PM
So you're saying we need someone who will hire coaches more like Ron Guenther?

 ;D

{shudders} You raised a name that should never be printed here in full {shudders}.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #82 on: June 21, 2023, 05:52:59 PM »
Credit where credit's due - Bill Self was a hell of a pluck for ol' Ronnie.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #83 on: June 21, 2023, 06:55:38 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 21, 2023, 05:52:59 PM
Credit where credit's due - Bill Self was a hell of a pluck for ol' Ronnie.

Yes. Didn't do what he needed to do to keep him..neither did the admin from the sounds of things. Imagine how much dough they would be swimming in if Self won a championship had the program rolling. The school would not need to be relying on out of country students to pay the bills.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Custard

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #84 on: June 21, 2023, 06:57:48 PM »
Let’s be honest, there wasn’t anything we could have done to keep him once that carousel started turning. Best to let it go. Plenty of other things Lord Guenther actually fucked up to harbor resentment about.
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frankiew

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2023, 07:06:39 PM »
crazy people still boo self
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illiniray

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Re: Future schedule
« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2023, 02:44:37 PM »
Did this evolve into the Underwood thread?

A few things about Brad Underwood.  He prefers a fast paced spread offense and half court pressure defense. I think, correct me if I am wrong.

No, they are not gimmicks. But both are apparently challenging to learn, require the right personnel, and maybe not ideally suited to the B1G. So he has gone with a more common high ball screen O and pack line help D. He also tried jump switching which is also not a gimmick, plenty use it. Anyway, he has been flexible in adjusting his system to his personnel.

He also  lost his entire assistant coaching staff to poachers a couple years ago, and managed to find quality replacements.

After struggling the first 2 seasons, he has put together 4 straight winning seasons with NCÀA tournament quality teams.

Recruiting has been pretty good, though not yet at the high elite  levels of the pre-slush fund,  mid-1980s, and Kruger/Self years. There is a lot a blah blah about 2 All Americans. Those earlier teams had multiple High School All Americans and future NBA (or ABA) players. He does have a possible 5 star McD AA committed. Would be our first since Jereme Richmond.

A chief complaint has been the high player  turnover. Some ask, is it poor people selection or bad player development?

A lot of it was they took the best players they could get. Kind of like Whitman hired the best BB coach he could get.

Another one is that Brad is too stubborn, despite all the evidence suggesting he is flexible. I suspect that is in part because he won't let boosters run his program. In part because of his energetic coaching style.

Then the postseason stuff that's been debated ad Infinitum.

I am mostly with Spark on this one. Though I am not sure BU is necessarily the best possible man for the job, letting him go now would be tres bad optics. It likely results in a gross replacement, and the loss of current players.

A solid replacement would have to be lined up, and at least Tim Anderson retained..


« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 02:49:00 PM by illiniray »
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