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do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #555 on: May 23, 2023, 11:41:36 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 23, 2023, 09:38:40 PM
I take it you think Tempo's post qualifies for the Tempo Strawman thread?

Apparently he thinks that. Because NU and DePaul should “be embarrassed to lose an Illinois player to another school.”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #556 on: May 23, 2023, 11:43:04 PM »
Here’s the exact quote. How else can this be interpreted?

“And if your kid was transferring, it'd be a really bad look for their coaches if he didn't go to Northwestern or DePaul?“
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #557 on: May 23, 2023, 11:50:07 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 23, 2023, 11:43:04 PM
Here’s the exact quote. How else can this be interpreted?

“And if your kid was transferring, it'd be a really bad look for their coaches if he didn't go to Northwestern or DePaul?“

What else could this be but an attemp to “level down” Illinois? No one expects DePaul and NU to match Illinois in recruiting. Including 99.8% of their fanbases.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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FaninCa

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #558 on: May 24, 2023, 07:10:38 AM »
Hawkins trending downward after the NBA Draft Combine and this mock draft has him undrafted.

Coleman Hawkins (Illinois, PF, Junior)

A big part of the pitch to Hawkins is shooting, and he didn't look like a shooter during scrimmages or his pro day. He also wasn't much of a threat when he put the ball down, as he was frequently forced to turn his back to the rim and defender. He's a plus passer, but that seems unlikely to be enough for Hawkins to warrant anything but late second-round interest.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076423-stock-up-stock-down-how-the-2023-nba-draft-combine-changed-our-mock-draft
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Lkdog

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #559 on: May 24, 2023, 07:21:55 AM »
Quote from: FaninCa on May 24, 2023, 07:10:38 AM
Hawkins trending downward after the NBA Draft Combine and this mock draft has him undrafted.

Coleman Hawkins (Illinois, PF, Junior)

A big part of the pitch to Hawkins is shooting, and he didn't look like a shooter during scrimmages or his pro day. He also wasn't much of a threat when he put the ball down, as he was frequently forced to turn his back to the rim and defender. He's a plus passer, but that seems unlikely to be enough for Hawkins to warrant anything but late second-round interest.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076423-stock-up-stock-down-how-the-2023-nba-draft-combine-changed-our-mock-draft

Sounds about right. Really is not a threat on offense except for putbacks and run outs.
Cannot shoot from any of 3/mid/rim level really consistently.

Over rated on ball D.
Cannot stay in front of smaller wings or guard bigger players in post ups.

Does have good vision but poor IQ.
He might go, but doubt he can get a guarantee.

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #560 on: May 24, 2023, 08:35:00 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 23, 2023, 11:43:04 PM
Here’s the exact quote. How else can this be interpreted?

“And if your kid was transferring, it'd be a really bad look for their coaches if he didn't go to Northwestern or DePaul?“

I was using the examples you provided to show that your overall point - that someone's parent having a passing, cursory interest in a college basketball program sometimes - does not lead to it being a 'bad look' if they don't choose that school.  That if your kid was choosing between Northwestern and, say, Oregon State, and chose OSU, it wouldn't be some huge indictment on the Northwestern coach just because you live near Chicago and occasionally show passing interest in Northwestern basketball.

It's amazing how much difficulty you have understanding really simple debate points.  You're really spectacularly bad at honest debate, chock full of intentional misrepresentations and strawmen.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 08:44:57 AM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #561 on: May 24, 2023, 08:36:14 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 23, 2023, 11:50:07 PM
What else could this be but an attemp to “level down” Illinois? No one expects DePaul and NU to match Illinois in recruiting. Including 99.8% of their fanbases.

If I were curious why those two schools were brought up in relation to the discussion we were having, I would ask the person who brought them up.

I simply took the examples you gave and used them.  I'd never compare DePaul and Northwestern to Illinois, I used the examples you provided.

Would say the same for any school.  If a kid grew up in NC and his dad had a passing, cursory interest in UNC basketball, I wouldn't say it was a bad look for him to not transfer to UNC because of that.  I bet you think UNC is a much better comparison for Illinois.
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #562 on: May 24, 2023, 08:39:21 AM »
I gotta say, it's mostly my fault.  For a decade or more I've attempted to inject some thought and nuance into these discussions, to try to point out that thinking about a gray situation in black and white is stupid - especially when we as fans have basically no information about the specifics of a recruitment.

Tempo is obviously not going to get it, so I should simply stop trying the "think about it this way" abstract thought thing.  He cannot examine his own biases in that way, he's not capable.

He can't consider that maybe his passing interest in a Chicago school is the same as a non-native Illinois person's interest in Illinois basketball.  Just doesn't compute to him.  That person surely thinks just like he does, it's only logical!

Insists Illinois is actually way better than programs with similar historical results because of their 'scope'.  When asked what that means specifically, crickets.  "You just know!" type stuff.  "It's just true".  That's the evidence.  It just is.  There's no question whatsoever in my mind that he thinks we're closer to a program like Duke with 17 Final Fours than a program like Utah.  Because of "the scope".

Incapable of entertaining an idea without subscribing to it.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 08:56:17 AM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #563 on: May 24, 2023, 08:55:31 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 24, 2023, 08:35:00 AM
I was using the examples you provided to show that your overall point - that someone's parent having a passing, cursory interest in a college basketball program sometimes - does not lead to it being a 'bad look' if they don't choose that school.  That if your kid was choosing between Northwestern and, say, Oregon State, and chose OSU, it wouldn't be some huge indictment on the Northwestern coach just because you live near Chicago and occasionally show passing interest in Northwestern basketball.

It's amazing how much difficulty you have understanding really simple debate points.  You're really spectacularly bad at honest debate, chock full of intentional misrepresentations and strawmen.

What’s amazing is how much push back you’re willing to give on the idea an Illinois kid who thus far has only played at midmajors, might find Illinois a pretty attractive destination.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #564 on: May 24, 2023, 08:59:33 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 24, 2023, 08:55:31 AM
What’s amazing is how much push back you’re willing to give on the idea an Illinois kid who thus far has only played at midmajors, might find Illinois a pretty attractive destination.

Nope, I've fully acknowledged that he might find Illinois an attractive destination multiple times, over and over really.  You just ignore it.  I've said "maybe he just hates Underwood?" or "Maybe Underwood just dropped the ball?" multiple times too, which you don't even acknowledge, but when I say "maybe they didn't like that Underwood passed on him last time?" you both 1. claim I am 'assuming that is true', which I'm not doing any more than I am in the 'maybe Underwood fucked up?' speculation, and 2. mock the notion that maybe a kid's parents might not like that the state university coach didn't even look at their first team all-state kid. I think it's clear based on this discussion that you would be shocked at the things that decide major recruitments, parents struggling to get past a coach overlooking their kid wouldn't even be slightly unusual.

What's at issue is that I also acknowledge that I have no idea whether that's actually true about RayJ Dennis, and that assuming it IS true is pretty silly, because there's just no way for either of us to know.

You can't acknowledge that you don't know.  You simply assume he thinks like you, and mock anyone who suggests that it's possible he does not.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 09:01:04 AM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #565 on: May 24, 2023, 09:03:17 AM »
If this were Anthony’ Davis, you’d have a much better point. Your typical 3 star midmajor kid from suburban Chicago would likely be over the moon to be offered by U of I.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ILLINICHIEF

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #566 on: May 24, 2023, 09:04:19 AM »
 According to the Utes page, Dennis is still up in the air, but the ILLINI are now on the outside of this recruitment. Very unfortunate, and also very poor decision by this kid imo for draft prospects next year as well. The level of play is nowhere near the same, and they also have a lead guard returning that although as the article states is not eye popping, he did average 32 min a game and is dependable ( he will play still alot).


https://247sports.com/college/utah/longformarticle/utah-utes-basketball-a-look-at-the-future-of-the-runnin-utes-210615860/#2172204
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"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #567 on: May 24, 2023, 09:08:47 AM »
Will we feel better about this if he goes to Michigan instead?
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #568 on: May 24, 2023, 09:09:15 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 24, 2023, 09:03:17 AM
If this were Anthony’ Davis, you’d have a much better point. Your typical 3 star midmajor kid from suburban Chicago would likely be over the moon to be offered by U of I.

I have no idea if RayJ Dennis was "over the moon" when he was offered by U of I the second time around - he was not offered or even really looked at the first time.  I'll have to take your assumption as fact, I suppose!

And that's what it comes down to.  You're willing to criticize or praise someone based on your assumptions, without evidence.  I am not willing to do that.  I, and you, are biased as Illinois fans.  I have no idea if RayJ Dennis, his parents, his friends, etc. are or ever were Illinois basketball fans.  No idea.
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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #569 on: May 24, 2023, 09:11:58 AM »
Hey Spark, have you ever noticed that in your never-ending quest for objectivity, every single opinion you offer either paints Underwood in a good light, or provides a soft-landing?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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