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WTF is wrong with the left?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #780 on: March 17, 2021, 08:13:40 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on March 17, 2021, 07:46:36 PM
So you're arguing that getting a leg up from the baseline compared to others is privilege, but being at baseline and others being below baseline is *not* privilege.

I'd say that your ability to make that sort of bizarre syntactical distinction without being slapped with a rotting fish - is privilege

So you are arguing that being at at baseline is somehow an unearned privilege? Between that and by calling my position a "sort of bizarre syntactical distinction" and saying that not "being slapped with a rotting fish" for making it is privilege, you made my case.

To repeat. Being at baseline is not an unearned privilege. Not being slapped with rotting fish is not an unearned privilege. Not being abused and harassed by the police is not a privilege.

The distinction is not one of syntax or semantics. It is practical. Your solution is to pull everyone down below the baseline. Mine is to pull everyone up to the baseline. If being at the rock bottom baseline of civil rights is somehow an unearned  privilege (it simply is not); let's extend privilege to all.
 
     
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illinicalvin

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #781 on: March 17, 2021, 08:15:53 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 17, 2021, 06:15:04 PM
Also, why is it a such a terrible thing that law enforcement see crimes as otherwise good people having bad days?
Because bad people exist (e.g., shooting 8 people) and it isn't the job of police to make moral pronouncements that may affect the legal process or perpetuate systemic racial biases.

It's a particularly bad look for a system that routinely imposes lifetime consequences disproportionately against minorities because those people are "bad" when what they did is sell drugs, steal a car once, or download the wrong computer file.
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fucking

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #782 on: March 17, 2021, 08:16:48 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on March 17, 2021, 07:50:27 PM
"If you look at that photo, where his glasses are, he could no more read a book with a mask than he could eat or drink, because he wouldn't be able to get his readers to the right focal length.
What in the actual fuck are you talking about?
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #783 on: March 17, 2021, 08:20:30 PM »
Those look like prescription glasses, not readers. Whatever. I wear bifocals. I can read and see with the mask on just fine, except for one thing. My glasses tend to fog up. I generally unconsciously fix that by pulling the mask down below  my nose. I was in the store the other day. I noticed several people with masks pulled below their noses. All were wearing glasses.
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illinicalvin

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #784 on: March 17, 2021, 08:22:35 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 17, 2021, 08:13:40 PM
Not being abused and harassed by the police is not a privilege.
Jesus Christ, why don't you just change your user name to "Privileged"

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #785 on: March 17, 2021, 08:23:23 PM »
Quote from: fucking on March 17, 2021, 08:16:48 PM
What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

 a bizarre syntactical distinction 
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #786 on: March 17, 2021, 08:25:03 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on March 17, 2021, 08:22:35 PM
Jesus Christ, why don't you just change your user name to "Privileged"

If you feel guilty and want to be abused by cops, just to make it fair, I have some suggestions.
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Miniditka

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #787 on: March 17, 2021, 08:37:21 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 17, 2021, 03:19:43 PM
I still the think the concept of white privilege is nonsense. Every explanation I have seen comes down to conflating freedom from unfavorable prejudice as an unearned privilege. If true, the solution would be take away the unearned privilege. That would mean start pulling over people for driving while white.

The problem is not white privilege. It is systemic prejudice resulting in negative racial profiling, The solution is to stop pulling over black males because they all look like 'the composite' to the white cops. 

I wonder if there was a time when guys with ruddy complexions fit the description?   
The concept of white privilege is only nonsense from your perspective. From the perspective of a non-white person, it appears as privilege. Yours is not the only valid viewpoint.

I understand what you are saying, but you’re making it a pointlessly semantic argument. Nobody is actually proposing that the solution to the police violence problem is to have police abusing their power against all races.

I do agree somewhat with what you’re saying though. I have always thought that “white privilege” was a stupid choice of words if you want to convince white people to support your cause. Someone who works hard every day to support their family isn’t ever going to be convinced to feel “privileged” simply because they have a job, don’t get treated like shit by police, and aren’t systematically denied constitutional rights. They’re more than likely going to resent the term and be driven the other way.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #788 on: March 17, 2021, 08:54:31 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on March 17, 2021, 08:15:53 PM
Because bad people exist (e.g., shooting 8 people) and it isn't the job of police to make moral pronouncements that may affect the legal process or perpetuate systemic racial biases.

It's a particularly bad look for a system that routinely imposes lifetime consequences disproportionately against minorities because those people are "bad" when what they did is sell drugs, steal a car once, or download the wrong computer file.

Classically, it is liberals saying we need to look at the root cause of crime, these are good kids who had a tough time, and so on. The wingnuts are the ones who say they are bad people, lock 'em up. 

I definitely agree that minorities are treated unfairly by the law enforcement and criminal justice systems. 

I don't agree that treating white perpetrators or suspects unfairly is a solution.

The core of the discussion went to motive. Some have jumped to the conclusion it might have been anti-Asian racism and misogyny. The police don't think so at this time.

I realize people are obsessed with optics these days. I think the police should be more concerned with getting it right than appearances.

Here is a fuller quote: [Captain Jay]  Baker said he didn't know if the suspect expressed remorse to investigators, but Baker said they got the impression he understood the gravity of his alleged actions. "He was pretty much fed up and had been kind of at the end of his rope, and yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did," Baker said.

Also: The suspect indicated he "has some issues, potentially sexual addiction," Cherokee County Sheriff Frank Reynolds said. The suspect also indicated he may have frequented some of the spas in the past, Reynolds said. Baker said the suspect saw the spas as a temptation that he wanted to eliminate.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 09:10:55 PM by illiniray »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #789 on: March 17, 2021, 09:09:37 PM »
Quote from: Miniditka on March 17, 2021, 08:37:21 PM
The concept of white privilege is only nonsense from your perspective. From the perspective of a non-white person, it appears as privilege. Yours is not the only valid viewpoint.

I understand what you are saying, but you’re making it a pointlessly semantic argument. Nobody is actually proposing that the solution to the police violence problem is to have police abusing their power against all races.

I do agree somewhat with what you’re saying though. I have always thought that “white privilege” was a stupid choice of words if you want to convince white people to support your cause. Someone who works hard every day to support their family isn’t ever going to be convinced to feel “privileged” simply because they have a job, don’t get treated like shit by police, and aren’t systematically denied constitutional rights. They’re more than likely going to resent the term and be driven the other way.

Words means things.  Or they used to.

I did some googling. There is a lot of anger about the police statements in regards to the Atlanta murders, complaints about whiteness, insistence that the murders must have been racially motivated, and so on.   

I know a lot of people who are bothered by racial injustice, but do not feel privileged.

I also know some black people who couldn't care less if white people resent the term. As far as they are concerned, we can shut up and stay in our lane.   
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 09:16:56 PM by illiniray »
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #790 on: March 17, 2021, 11:04:45 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 17, 2021, 08:20:30 PM
Those look like prescription glasses, not readers. Whatever. I wear bifocals. I can read and see with the mask on just fine, except for one thing. My glasses tend to fog up. I generally unconsciously fix that by pulling the mask down below  my nose. I was in the store the other day. I noticed several people with masks pulled below their noses. All were wearing glasses.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/John_Kerry_official_Secretary_of_State_portrait.jpg/330px-John_Kerry_official_Secretary_of_State_portrait.jpg

John Kerry does not wear glasses.



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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #791 on: March 17, 2021, 11:06:18 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 17, 2021, 08:20:30 PM
Those look like prescription glasses, not readers. Whatever. I wear bifocals. I can read and see with the mask on just fine, except for one thing. My glasses tend to fog up. I generally unconsciously fix that by pulling the mask down below  my nose. I was in the store the other day. I noticed several people with masks pulled below their noses. All were wearing glasses.

Also -
https://imgur.com/gallery/Kitu3mu
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #792 on: March 17, 2021, 11:10:17 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 17, 2021, 08:54:31 PM
Classically, it is liberals saying we need to look at the root cause of crime, these are good kids who had a tough time, and so on. The wingnuts are the ones who say they are bad people, lock 'em up. 

The core of the discussion went to motive. Some have jumped to the conclusion it might have been anti-Asian racism and misogyny. The police don't think so at this time.


Classically - is is conservatives who believe the police, despite a lot of evidence that a lot of them are pretty clueless.

Note that it's not the police's job to think or not to think about motive - that's the job of the DA. For a reason - law degrees among other things.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #793 on: March 17, 2021, 11:13:10 PM »
Quote from: fucking on March 17, 2021, 08:16:48 PM
What in the actual fuck are you talking about?
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB1dbb77.img?h=683&w=1119&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=724&y=519

Kerry's eyes are looking directly at someone he's speaking to - but not through his glasses. If he were nearsighted, presumably wearing bifocals, he'd push them back up to look at the person to whom he's speaking.

Instead, he's leaving his readers down on the tip of his nose, for when he goes back to his notes. Readers function like bifocals this way for people with close to 20/20 but who can't read without readers.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 11:16:21 PM by murphstahoe »
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IlliniGolf

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #794 on: March 17, 2021, 11:18:48 PM »
If this was Ted Cruz Smurph would have had an aneurysm
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