wtf is wrong with the right?

ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3270 on: June 06, 2023, 03:07:40 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:00:10 PM

How do you propose we "just tell" whether someone is trans, short of a hormone test or looking at their genitals?

I do not care what bathroom they use. I do understand how a woman may panic when a "man" shows up in a woman's bathroom though. I would think this is a real life example that maybe Judge Judy should consider.

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3271 on: June 06, 2023, 03:07:49 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:01:27 PM

I do not care about the who uses what bathroom stuff myself, but I certainly can understand how it could be abused by people who are not acting in good faith. It is easy to say to wait for someone to be attacked in a bathroom to call the cops. A "man" in the woman's bathroom would raise some red flags for anyone in the bathroom.

Sure, of course it can be abused by people who are not acting in good faith. That isn't new or at all related to trans issues though, it can be abused by people who are not acting in good faith whether they're cis, trans, straight, gay, bi, male, female, non-binary, black, white, etc. etc. etc. Everything can be abused by people who are not acting in good faith. How would conservatives react, you think, if they started criminalizing all the stuff that's abused by cis people not acting in good faith?

It can be abused just as easily by cis people, and the statistics say that is far more likely. Trans people are WAAAAAAAYYYYY more likely to be a victim of a violent crime (4x the rate of cis people) than to be the perpetrator (about the same likelihood as cis people).

Shows how obviously stupid the made up outrage about trans bathroom usage is, huh?

It's almost like., and stop me if you've heard this before, it has nothing to do with sexual assault or bathroom usage and everything to do with bullying trans people.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 03:11:49 PM by spark mandrill »

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3272 on: June 06, 2023, 03:08:25 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:07:40 PM

I do not care what bathroom they use. I do understand how a woman may panic when a "man" shows up in a woman's bathroom though. I would think this is a real life example that maybe Judge Judy should consider.

So this has absolutely nothing to do with trans people at all - but the legislation and the rhetoric absolutely does.

Do you think that's a coincidence?

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3273 on: June 06, 2023, 03:10:03 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:04:46 PM

Hasn't said "murder" and no direct evidence of advocating for killing them. Ok.

You do not believe that Judge Judy would try and kill the person or beat them up? As one who has engaged in way over the top hyperbole, what are we supposed to call out here? Stuff that no one thinks Judge Judge would actually do?

If someone advocates for brutalizing and violently attacking another person, ignoring that the person in question here is one of the most already-marginalized people in American society - I think that's pretty fair game to call out. Crazy thought, I know.

If someone said "I'll cut the dick off any black guy who comes into the bathroom with me", would it get called out?

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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3274 on: June 06, 2023, 03:11:23 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:03:24 PM

Would be pretty hard to justify the bathroom laws given how easily foreseeable this is, no? Unless, of course, the goal has nothing to do with sexual assault and everything to do with further marginalizing one of the most marginalized groups in our society. Which ANY honest accounting of the situation would make clear is accurate. They don't want trans people to use their AAB bathroom, but they also don't want them to use the one corresponding to their gender identity.

If conservatives were really worried about their kids being sexually assaulted they'd be way less upset about Drag Queen Story Hour and way more upset about taking their kid to church on Sunday, but alas..

I agree that they are dumb. I understand concerns about bad faith actors. I am thinking those concerns are overblown.

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3275 on: June 06, 2023, 03:15:18 PM »

I understand concerns about bad faith actors too, but there are already laws on the book about assaulting people, attacking them, etc. Those laws exist already, there's no need to write them. I already can't legally go into the women's room and attack a woman as a cisgendered man, that's against the law.

The laws conservatives are trying to pass are about trans people though, not "bad faith actors". Those laws exist already. They are trying to criminalize being trans, not attacking people in restrooms - that's already illegal regardless of whether you're trans or not.

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3276 on: June 06, 2023, 03:16:40 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:11:23 PM

I agree that they are dumb. I understand concerns about bad faith actors. I am thinking those concerns are overblown.

And it's worth noting, I have pointed out how obviously this sort of thing was going to happen previously - remember when I posted the picture of the trans male models and pointed out that Judy's INSISTENT these three men use the women's room with his daughter? Big, hulking, shirtless men.

The end game to the bathroom laws is ALWAYS, "we need to check their genitals". There's simply no other way to know whether someone is trans or cisgendered - and frankly, even that might not tell you. If you're insistent on people using the bathroom of the gender they were assigned at birth, you're either insisting that people presenting and living as men use the women's room, or you're demanding to see their junk.

There's a reason Judy's never been specific about HOW that sort of law might be enforced - she obviously recognizes that short of the thing I always mock her for (checking their junk), there's simply no way to know. Which brings us back to, "use the bathroom of the gender you identify and present as", which is of course what liberals have been saying all along.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 03:21:27 PM by spark mandrill »

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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3277 on: June 06, 2023, 03:21:02 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:07:49 PM

Sure, of course it can be abused by people who are not acting in good faith. That isn't new or at all related to trans issues though, it can be abused by people who are not acting in good faith whether they're cis, trans, straight, gay, bi, male, female, non-binary, black, white, etc. etc. etc. Everything can be abused by people who are not acting in good faith. How would conservatives react, you think, if they started criminalizing all the stuff that's abused by cis people not acting in good faith?

It can be abused just as easily by cis people, and the statistics say that is far more likely. Trans people are WAAAAAAAYYYYY more likely to be a victim of a violent crime (4x the rate of cis people) than to be the perpetrator (about the same likelihood as cis people).

Shows how obviously stupid the made up outrage about trans bathroom usage is, huh?

It's almost like., and stop me if you've heard this before, it has nothing to do with sexual assault or bathroom usage and everything to do with bullying trans people.

I am also sure there are way overblown concerns about Guy going into Woman's Bathrooms to be a Peeper and then claiming Gender as a defense and using these laws to prevent that.

Then again, these laws only apply to PUBLIC restrooms in 5 states (according to Wikipedia). Depending upon the state, Campground Owner Bob can probably do whatever the fuck he wants with the restrooms he provides. In Illinois, Campground Owner Bob in this instance may have a problem. Ohio? Probably not (nothing in Wikipedia about any such bill/law in Ohio).

This happened in Ohio. Are there even bathroom laws there? I do not recall the story mentioning it.

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3278 on: June 06, 2023, 03:22:18 PM »

They're currently trying to pass a law forcing trans men to use the women's room at public schools.

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3279 on: June 06, 2023, 03:24:19 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:21:02 PM

I am also sure there are way overblown concerns about Guy going into Woman's Bathrooms to be a Peeper and then claiming Gender as a defense and using these laws to prevent that.

Then again, these laws only apply to PUBLIC restrooms in 5 states (according to Wikipedia). Depending upon the state, Campground Owner Bob can probably do whatever the fuck he wants with the restrooms he provides. In Illinois, Campground Owner Bob in this instance may have a problem. Ohio? Probably not (nothing in Wikipedia about any such bill/law in Ohio).

This happened in Ohio. Are there even bathroom laws there? I do not recall the story mentioning it.

It's ALREADY illegal for a guy to go into a women's room (or a men's room, really) and be a "peeper". And the laws conservatives want to pass about using the bathroom assigned to you at birth doesn't change that - it'll still be exactly as illegal for a man to go "peep" in the women's room regardless of whether he is cis or trans.

It WILL, however, FORCE lots of women to use the men's room (and vice versa) and just hope they don't get some moron mad about it. It's actively endangering lives.

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3280 on: June 06, 2023, 03:27:19 PM »

Like imagine going on and on about how you will cut a trans woman's dick off if she enters a restroom behind your daughter, while simultaneously fighting to FORCE this dude to use the same restroom as your daughter.

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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3281 on: June 06, 2023, 03:31:40 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:15:18 PM

I understand concerns about bad faith actors too, but there are already laws on the book about assaulting people, attacking them, etc. Those laws exist already, there's no need to write them. I already can't legally go into the women's room and attack a woman as a cisgendered man, that's against the law.

The laws conservatives are trying to pass are about trans people though, not "bad faith actors". Those laws exist already. They are trying to criminalize being trans, not attacking people in restrooms - that's already illegal regardless of whether you're trans or not.

These laws are in 5 states.

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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3282 on: June 06, 2023, 03:32:22 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:22:18 PM

They're currently trying to pass a law forcing trans men to use the women's room at public schools.

So said law would not have applied at the Ohio campground?

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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3283 on: June 06, 2023, 03:33:17 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:31:40 PM

These laws are in 5 states.

With a dozen or two more trying currently to pass their own, yes.

Surely you've noticed that LOTS of states have introduced these bills in recent years, right?

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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?

« Reply #3284 on: June 06, 2023, 03:34:27 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:32:22 PM

So said law would not have applied at the Ohio campground?

No idea, but you're trying to deflect from the discussion. Don't.

JudgeJudy and others like her want to force people to use the bathroom assigned to them at birth. This is the obvious, easily foreseeable result. It is not and never was about bathrooms, their kids safety, or any of the other projections they use. It is and always was about bullying trans people, because people like that find trans people weird and gross. Because a trans person is surely MORE likely to be assaulted for using the bathroom they were assigned at birth than the one that corresponds to their identity and presentation, which frankly no one would ever know about unless they were told.

If they were worried about their kids being molested there would be a loud anti-Church movement - that they are far more concerned about Drag Queen Story Hours, where there have been pretty much no incidents speaks very, very loudly if we don't plug our ears.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 03:37:36 PM by spark mandrill »

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