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wtf is wrong with the right?

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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1830 on: December 22, 2021, 03:35:07 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 22, 2021, 02:56:33 PM
There is means testing in the proposal. Manchin wants lower thresholds.

I would have neither. Also eliminate the requirement to have children. Make it a universal per adult refundable tax credit.  Couple it with a flat tax. Eliminate all other individual credits and deductions.

Get rid of SNAP,  TANF, Section 8, Medicaid, the ACA, and so on. Expand and enhance Medicare to cover everyone. Raise the Medicare tax to pay for it.

You've gone from Nixon to Commie in 50 years....
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1831 on: December 22, 2021, 03:58:48 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 22, 2021, 03:35:07 PM
You've gone from Nixon to Commie in 50 years....

So Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek were commies?

"Milton Friedman proposed to give everybody free money in his book “Capitalism and Freedom”. He mostly referred to this plan as a negative income tax (and he also referred to it as a guaranteed income because that’s exactly what it is.) But why would Milton Friedman, an outspoken free market capitalist, support giving people money for nothing? Here are 5 reasons backed by Friedman’s own words.

1. To Reduce Government Bureaucracy
...
2. The Efficiency of Free Markets
...
3. To End the Welfare Trap
...
4. To Enable Work
...
5. Justice & Equality
"

https://medium.com/basic-income/why-milton-friedman-supported-a-guaranteed-income-5-reasons-da6e628f6070

"There is no reason why, in a society which has reached the general level of wealth ours has, (the certainty of a given minimum of sustenance) should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom; that is: some minimum of food, shelter and clothing, sufficient to preserve health. Nor is there any reason why the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance in providing for those common hazards of life against which few can make adequate provision." ~~ Hayek
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1832 on: December 22, 2021, 04:04:11 PM »
Quote from: Mn on December 22, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Nearly 74 percent of voters also said Manchin should oppose the president’s Build Back Better plan.

https://wvmetronews.com/2021/11/15/wv-voters-slam-biden-approve-of-justice-manchin-in-latest-mbe-research-poll/

There’s no fucking way that’s accurate.
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1833 on: December 22, 2021, 04:06:18 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 22, 2021, 03:35:07 PM
You've gone from Nixon to Commie in 50 years....

Nothing about a reverse income tax / refundable tax credit implies central planning or public ownership of the means of production.  It is the free market approach to welfare. Eliminating means testing for the credit  give a flat tax progressivity and encourages work. 

Healthcare, like public roads, is one of those areas where a free market simply does not work. 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 04:13:35 PM by illiniray »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1834 on: December 22, 2021, 04:10:12 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 22, 2021, 04:04:11 PM
There’s no fucking way that’s accurate.
Biden didnt win a county in 2020.
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1835 on: December 22, 2021, 04:12:00 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 22, 2021, 04:04:11 PM
There’s no fucking way that’s accurate.

They support the child tax credit, child care subsidies, green energy incentives, tax increases for kazillionaires, and so on. They oppose BBB.  Like those who hated Obamacare, but loved the ACA. 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 06:28:48 PM by illiniray »
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Custard

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1836 on: December 22, 2021, 04:15:43 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 22, 2021, 02:25:53 PM
Voters oppose big government inflationary deficit spending.

OTOH, other polls have show they support the specific programs of BBB by a large margin. I fail to understand why they don't vote on each one as a separate bill.

Makes it pretty tough to sneak in a lot of the BS.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1837 on: December 22, 2021, 04:23:08 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 22, 2021, 03:58:48 PM
So Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek were commies?

"Milton Friedman proposed to give everybody free money in his book “Capitalism and Freedom”. He mostly referred to this plan as a negative income tax (and he also referred to it as a guaranteed income because that’s exactly what it is.) But why would Milton Friedman, an outspoken free market capitalist, support giving people money for nothing? Here are 5 reasons backed by Friedman’s own words.

1. To Reduce Government Bureaucracy
...
2. The Efficiency of Free Markets
...
3. To End the Welfare Trap
...
4. To Enable Work
...
5. Justice & Equality
"

https://medium.com/basic-income/why-milton-friedman-supported-a-guaranteed-income-5-reasons-da6e628f6070

"There is no reason why, in a society which has reached the general level of wealth ours has, (the certainty of a given minimum of sustenance) should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom; that is: some minimum of food, shelter and clothing, sufficient to preserve health. Nor is there any reason why the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance in providing for those common hazards of life against which few can make adequate provision." ~~ Hayek

Sounds like they were smoking what Gelato smokes.
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fucking

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1838 on: December 24, 2021, 05:54:48 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 22, 2021, 01:26:13 PM
One would have thought you learned about how to have sex without having kids in school....
I'm at a loss to explain the stupidity of Murph's remark.
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ridingthegrange

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1839 on: December 24, 2021, 09:49:15 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 22, 2021, 02:25:53 PM
Voters oppose big government inflationary deficit spending.

OTOH, other polls have show they support the specific programs of BBB by a large margin. I fail to understand why they don't vote on each one as a separate bill.

I think it's because it's a Reconciliation bill that's tied to yearly government funding.  Only one shot a year.  Some popular aspects wouldn't even make it to the floor for discussion due to filibuster.   
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1840 on: December 26, 2021, 08:41:19 PM »
Who is this Sullivan douche who is running for governor? Just saw his ad on the Bulls game. Basically the dude and his wife said "God" and "pray" or "prayer" a lot and not much else. WTF is that? Bring back Bruce Rauner.
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Custard

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1841 on: December 26, 2021, 08:48:06 PM »
To be fair it will probably take a miracle to fix Illinois.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1842 on: December 26, 2021, 09:09:30 PM »
Quote from: Custard on December 26, 2021, 08:48:06 PM
To be fair it will probably take a miracle to fix Illinois.

Fair enough, but just saying God and prayer over and over is not going to do it.
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Custard

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1843 on: December 26, 2021, 10:17:08 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 26, 2021, 09:09:30 PM
Fair enough, but just saying God and prayer over and over is not going to do it.

Of course not. The answer is to just keep raising taxes on everything!

I wonder how the vaccine mandate is going to affect tourism in Chicago and other major cities that have put it in place? Surveys seem to indicate that a majority (60% or so) say it won’t change their plans, but that pesky other 40% could really put a dent in revenues.

The tech company I do advisory work for has been scheduling regional and national meetings to “tourist friendly” destinations ever since travel resumed, and continues to do so.

Our Midwest regional meeting is in Deadwood the third week of January, which would have been on no one’s “regional meeting” list two years ago. It should be fun though, we are taking a day in the middle of the meetings to go snowmobiling.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1844 on: December 27, 2021, 07:24:36 AM »
Quote from: Custard on December 26, 2021, 10:17:08 PM
Of course not. The answer is to just keep raising taxes on everything!

I wonder how the vaccine mandate is going to affect tourism in Chicago and other major cities that have put it in place? Surveys seem to indicate that a majority (60% or so) say it won’t change their plans, but that pesky other 40% could really put a dent in revenues.

The tech company I do advisory work for has been scheduling regional and national meetings to “tourist friendly” destinations ever since travel resumed, and continues to do so.

Our Midwest regional meeting is in Deadwood the third week of January, which would have been on no one’s “regional meeting” list two years ago. It should be fun though, we are taking a day in the middle of the meetings to go snowmobiling.

I'm not sure who is coming here in January anyway, and no one knows when, or if, conventions will ever be in vogue again.
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