do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1050 on: July 14, 2023, 11:38:04 AM »

I know I am being long-winded here, but IMO the odd take is that Bill Self is purely a transactional egotist with nothing but disrespect for Illinois, rather than a human being who spent three really good seasons here; and as a person who has professional respect for his industry.

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1051 on: July 14, 2023, 11:41:32 AM »

Quote from: Tempo34 on July 14, 2023, 10:37:31 AM

Bill Self would have to have a Ron Burgundy level of ego (possible i suppose) to not feel flattered by Illinois reaching out to him. Do you really think he’s that callous?

Have you never had a female you weren’t actually interested show attraction to you? Even though you weren’t interested, if you’re not a callous piece of shit you’d still be flattered.

Your view of this is completely transactional. Again, I’m sure Bill Self has more respect for the Illinois job than you do. That much is certain. He wouldn’t have to have actual interest in returning to appreciate the interest.

I don't think Bill Self would be remotely surprised or care to know that Illinois would want him back if he was interested, no. I don't think sending a text accomplishes a single thing. Does it hurt? No. You'll get laughed at, obviously, but it doesn't cost anything. It's just a funny concept. "Sure he'll laugh at you but what does it hurt to send a text?" Nothing, it doesn't gain or lose a single thing. It's totally meaningless.

I view this as someone who's seen the inner workings of high level CBB a little bit. You view it as an Illinois fan, and never consider that not everyone sees that the same way you do.

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1052 on: July 14, 2023, 11:42:14 AM »

Quote from: Tempo34 on July 14, 2023, 11:38:04 AM

I know I am being long-winded here, but IMO the odd take is that Bill Self is purely a transactional egotist with nothing but disrespect for Illinois, rather than a human being who spent three really good seasons here; and as a person who has professional respect for his industry.

When we see someone espouse the take you call odd here, we'll tell them you think they're weird.

To this point no one has said anything remotely close to this - you recognize that, right?

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1053 on: July 14, 2023, 11:42:45 AM »

Quote from: Tempo34 on July 14, 2023, 10:48:29 AM

And again, that doesn’t at all mean Self would seriously consider returning. But since Whitman doesn’t have to ask publicly, what’s the harm in asking? I’ll tell you. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. That’s the harm.

And what's the benefit of asking?

Exactly the same.

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1054 on: July 14, 2023, 11:43:31 AM »

Quote from: Tempo34 on July 14, 2023, 10:45:07 AM

Again, it surprises me that you think Self is a callous piece of shit who only thinks of the world transactionally. Rather than a human being who actually has respect for his profession, and you know, overall good memories of his time here. He’s spoken fondly of Illinois since leaving. Sure, that doesn’t mean he’d necessarily be interested in returning. But since he’s probably more likely a normal professional with respect for the place that launched his career to the big time rather than a completely transactional egotist I choose to think he’d actually be flattered. It’s an emotion even people with large egos are capable of, you know.

It surprises me you think Self is a giant Illinois fan who's dying to come back here and just needs a text from Whitman to jump on it.

What's that? You never said that? Huh, weird.

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1055 on: July 14, 2023, 11:46:32 AM »

Quote from: Tempo34 on July 14, 2023, 10:57:53 AM

I am not making the case that Illinois is “special.” And certainly not special compared to KU. If you think that’s my point you’re not even in the same
zip code. The point is Illinois is a desirable job. That’s not to say that anyone we ask will come running. Not what I’m saying at all. But you never know when a top coach might be feeling unappreciated. Hell again, these people are human. You might just catch someone on the right week. They experience ups and downs emotionally just like us. They are not robots (well maybe K and Knight were, but the rest not).

I am not making a case that we can have whoever we want. But if we had any shot at all with a slam dunk great coach, it’d be Self. He’s had ups and downs at KU (off the court especially). There is nothing wrong with having someone say no to you. Again, these things are not done in the public eye. So why not try it? Because some guy on a message board thinks it’s absurd? Ok.

Illinois isn't an undesirable job, nor has anyone said anything close to that. It's a program with a decent history, in a decent location. There are a few dozen programs who could say similar things though, you act is if we're special every time we're recruiting a kid or hiring a coach. You did it with Smart and Stevens, you did it with RayJ Dennis. People are doing it right now with Sean Miller and surely you will too if we end up in a hiring cycle. This notion that We're Illinois and That Matters only comes from Illinois fans, and that isn't a coincidence. Non-Illinois fans just don't think that, and not everyone in Illinois is an Illinois fan. We're a good program in a decent area for talent (but notably in a cornfield and 100+ miles away), and that - not this "We're Illinois!" attitude you love - is how most people who follow college hoops view us.

We're a program that is good when we hire good coaches, and bad when we hire bad coaches. Same is true with most high major programs.

I'm not even sure what to say about the notion that we might have a chance at Self if we just asked him. You follow sports like it's College Hoops 2k.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 11:50:12 AM by spark mandrill »

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frankiew

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1056 on: July 14, 2023, 11:47:42 AM »

People who still hate Self for leaving is ridiculous. He would have stayed if we would have played the game

But we didn't

Now look at us

18 years without a sweet 16

« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 11:50:38 AM by sharethejuice »

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1057 on: July 14, 2023, 12:00:27 PM »

Why universities prefer not to say who they've contacted 101.

"In fact, reports surfaced that five coaches - Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, Lorenzo Romar, Anthony Grant and Leonard Hamilton - turned down the opportunity to coach the Fighting Illini.

Illinois athletic director Mike Thomas said most of those reports were simply false.

"For people to say coach Groce is the sixth choice, that's absolutely untrue," Thomas told The McNeil and Spiegel Show. "When we developed our short list early on, he was a primary candidate on that short list."
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/illinois-ad-coaching-search-went-according-to-plan/

It's not mentioned if any candidates, and who they may have been, who were contacted and turned down the offer were flattered to be presented with the opportunity.
Or maybe Groce was the only contact. Lol.

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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1058 on: July 14, 2023, 12:20:37 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on July 14, 2023, 11:41:32 AM

I don't think Bill Self would be remotely surprised or care to know that Illinois would want him back if he was interested, no. I don't think sending a text accomplishes a single thing. Does it hurt? No. You'll get laughed at, obviously, but it doesn't cost anything. It's just a funny concept. "Sure he'll laugh at you but what does it hurt to send a text?" Nothing, it doesn't gain or lose a single thing. It's totally meaningless.

I view this as someone who's seen the inner workings of high level CBB a little bit. You view it as an Illinois fan, and never consider that not everyone sees that the same way you do.

Ok, so you think Bill Self’s only concern in life is status. To the point he would mock any interest from Illinois. We disagree. No need to continue this discussion. Bill Self’s only emotion is tied to his ego. It’s settled.

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Reacher

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You should see my passer rating

Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1059 on: July 14, 2023, 12:21:42 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on July 14, 2023, 11:42:45 AM

And what's the benefit of asking?

Exactly the same.

As my dad used to say. “Can’t hit if you don’t shoot.”

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Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1060 on: July 14, 2023, 12:23:34 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on July 14, 2023, 11:41:32 AM

I don't think Bill Self would be remotely surprised or care to know that Illinois would want him back if he was interested, no. I don't think sending a text accomplishes a single thing. Does it hurt? No. You'll get laughed at, obviously, but it doesn't cost anything. It's just a funny concept. "Sure he'll laugh at you but what does it hurt to send a text?" Nothing, it doesn't gain or lose a single thing. It's totally meaningless.

I view this as someone who's seen the inner workings of high level CBB a little bit. You view it as an Illinois fan, and never consider that not everyone sees that the same way you do.

Again. You view it as someone who thinks Self’s only satisfaction comes from status. Rather than a human being who at least professes to have really enjoyed his time here. And no, that doesn’t mean he’d come back. But the harm in asking isn’t non-existent.

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Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

Reacher

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You should see my passer rating

Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1061 on: July 14, 2023, 12:25:24 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on July 14, 2023, 11:42:14 AM

When we see someone espouse the take you call odd here, we'll tell them you think they're weird.

To this point no one has said anything remotely close to this - you recognize that, right?

Bill Self couldn’t possibly be flattered to hear from Illinois. We are beneath him. The fond memories he has of this place don’t even register because his only source of satisfaction is status.

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Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

Reacher

38973
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You should see my passer rating

Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1062 on: July 14, 2023, 12:27:31 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on July 14, 2023, 11:42:14 AM

When we see someone espouse the take you call odd here, we'll tell them you think they're weird.

To this point no one has said anything remotely close to this - you recognize that, right?

You’re basically saying it. Because to be “flattered” by the interest he’d have to be seriously interested in returning amirite? Oh no, I’m not right. Sorry.

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Reacher

38973
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You should see my passer rating

Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1063 on: July 14, 2023, 12:30:26 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on July 14, 2023, 11:46:32 AM

Illinois isn't an undesirable job, nor has anyone said anything close to that. It's a program with a decent history, in a decent location. There are a few dozen programs who could say similar things though, you act is if we're special every time we're recruiting a kid or hiring a coach. You did it with Smart and Stevens, you did it with RayJ Dennis. People are doing it right now with Sean Miller and surely you will too if we end up in a hiring cycle. This notion that We're Illinois and That Matters only comes from Illinois fans, and that isn't a coincidence. Non-Illinois fans just don't think that, and not everyone in Illinois is an Illinois fan. We're a good program in a decent area for talent (but notably in a cornfield and 100+ miles away), and that - not this "We're Illinois!" attitude you love - is how most people who follow college hoops view us.

We're a program that is good when we hire good coaches, and bad when we hire bad coaches. Same is true with most high major programs.

I'm not even sure what to say about the notion that we might have a chance at Self if we just asked him. You follow sports like it's College Hoops 2k.

“Special?” No. Perhaps MIGHT have an advantage or a foot in the door in some cases. Absolutely.

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Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

Reacher

38973
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You should see my passer rating

Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

« Reply #1064 on: July 14, 2023, 12:31:50 PM »

Quote from: Mn on July 14, 2023, 12:00:27 PM

Why universities prefer not to say who they've contacted 101.

"In fact, reports surfaced that five coaches - Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, Lorenzo Romar, Anthony Grant and Leonard Hamilton - turned down the opportunity to coach the Fighting Illini.

Illinois athletic director Mike Thomas said most of those reports were simply false.

"For people to say coach Groce is the sixth choice, that's absolutely untrue," Thomas told The McNeil and Spiegel Show. "When we developed our short list early on, he was a primary candidate on that short list."
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/illinois-ad-coaching-search-went-according-to-plan/

It's not mentioned if any candidates, and who they may have been, who were contacted and turned down the offer were flattered to be presented with the opportunity.
Or maybe Groce was the only contact. Lol.

That’s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

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Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.