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do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

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Judge Judy

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1020 on: July 13, 2023, 04:00:17 PM »
Quote from: Mn on July 13, 2023, 02:59:42 PM
Any takers on Troll 4 and Troll 5 ?

Nah, can’t think of anybody… 😁
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Judge Judy

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1021 on: July 13, 2023, 04:02:24 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 13, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
How this all goes down in the mind of an insecure Illini fan:

Whitman goes on a TV show called “The Coach.” Whitman offers Bill Self a rose and is publicly humiliated. Which makes every Illini fan feel eternally humiliated.

How this actually goes down:

Whitman reaches out to Self/Self’s agent. Self probably says no, but is probably flattered by the interest. 6-8 people ever knows it happened. Self, his agent, his wife, his AD, Whitman and his closest assistant. Maybe 2-3 other people. World goes on as normal.

But how would YOU ever know if that happened though?! It could’ve happened before we hired Underwood for all anybody knows…
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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1022 on: July 13, 2023, 04:04:29 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on July 13, 2023, 04:02:24 PM
But how would YOU ever know if that happened though?! It could’ve happened before we hired Underwood for all anybody knows…

That’s not the point. I’m not asking him to do it to prove something to me. I’d want to at least believe that he’d be willing to take big swings. It’s got nothing to do with someone like me knowing or not knowing.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Judge Judy

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1023 on: July 13, 2023, 04:05:05 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 13, 2023, 04:04:29 PM
That’s not the point. I’m not asking him to do it to prove something to me. I’d want to at least believe that he’d be willing to take big swings. It’s got nothing to do with someone like me knowing or not knowing.

But again, who’s to say he hasn’t already?!
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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1024 on: July 13, 2023, 04:41:19 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on July 13, 2023, 04:05:05 PM
But again, who’s to say he hasn’t already?!

No one. I wasn’t making the case he hasn’t. I’m simply saying I would hope it’s something he’d do, or at the very least seriously consider…
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1025 on: July 13, 2023, 05:00:44 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 13, 2023, 02:12:16 PM
I really hope Whitman has a greater appreciation for Illinois’ place in college athletics than you do. I think he does.

I sincerely hope Whitman doesn't have the "of course, we're Illinois!" attitude.  Guenther did though, so maybe.

We're a historically good, not great, program with some lean stretches and some great stretches throughout the 120 years or so we've been playing basketball.  We're situated in an area near to three major metro areas that typically produce some good talent, but also in the middle of a cornfield 100+ miles from each of them.  I think there are reasons to believe Illinois has the potential to be a consistently great program in the future, for sure, but I don't subscribe to the "We're Illinois, of course we can get <x great coach>" or "of course this kid who used to live in Illinois holds them in a special place in his heart" type thinking because frankly, fans think that way - more often coaches and players don't.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2023, 05:06:07 PM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1026 on: July 13, 2023, 05:03:37 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 13, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
How this all goes down in the mind of an insecure Illini fan:

Whitman goes on a TV show called “The Coach.” Whitman offers Bill Self a rose and is publicly humiliated. Which makes every Illini fan feel eternally humiliated.

How this actually goes down:

Whitman reaches out to Self/Self’s agent. Self probably says no, but is probably flattered by the interest. 6-8 people ever knows it happened. Self, his agent, his wife, his AD, Whitman and his closest assistant. Maybe 2-3 other people. World goes on as normal.

I'm not at all scared of him saying no; of course he'd say no.

I'm laughing at the very idea of sending Bill Self a text message saying hey man, wanna come back?  Surely you see why it's funny.

Flattered by the interest?

I'm pretty confident Bill Self knows without a doubt he could get more or less any open college job in the country if he wanted it, every year.  Of course Illinois would want him to coach there.  Same with damn near every school in the country.
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frankiew

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1027 on: July 13, 2023, 05:38:46 PM »
I want Self
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Reacher

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1028 on: July 13, 2023, 07:57:22 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on July 13, 2023, 05:00:44 PM
I sincerely hope Whitman doesn't have the "of course, we're Illinois!" attitude.  Guenther did though, so maybe.

We're a historically good, not great, program with some lean stretches and some great stretches throughout the 120 years or so we've been playing basketball.  We're situated in an area near to three major metro areas that typically produce some good talent, but also in the middle of a cornfield 100+ miles from each of them.  I think there are reasons to believe Illinois has the potential to be a consistently great program in the future, for sure, but I don't subscribe to the "We're Illinois, of course we can get <x great coach>" or "of course this kid who used to live in Illinois holds them in a special place in his heart" type thinking because frankly, fans think that way - more often coaches and players don't.

A lot of big universities are in the middle of nowhere. Including KU. Nowhere ever did I say that we can get whoever we want because we are Illinois.

But there’s also an old adage: if you’re never being said no to, you’re probably not aiming high enough.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1029 on: July 13, 2023, 08:26:57 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on July 13, 2023, 05:03:37 PM
I'm not at all scared of him saying no; of course he'd say no.

I'm laughing at the very idea of sending Bill Self a text message saying hey man, wanna come back?  Surely you see why it's funny.

Flattered by the interest?

I'm pretty confident Bill Self knows without a doubt he could get more or less any open college job in the country if he wanted it, every year.  Of course Illinois would want him to coach there.  Same with damn near every school in the country.

Funny to “us fans” as you like to say. Just business to Bill Self and Josh Whitman I would think. They don’t have your hangups.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1030 on: July 13, 2023, 08:28:12 PM »
Bill Self knowing he could come back if he wanted to wouldn’t preclude him from being flattered by the offer…
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1031 on: July 13, 2023, 08:29:02 PM »
The self-loathing Illini fan mindset just oozes from Spark.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1032 on: July 14, 2023, 01:46:09 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on July 13, 2023, 05:03:37 PM
I'm not at all scared of him saying no; of course he'd say no.

I'm laughing at the very idea of sending Bill Self a text message saying hey man, wanna come back?  Surely you see why it's funny.

Flattered by the interest?

I'm pretty confident Bill Self knows without a doubt he could get more or less any open college job in the country if he wanted it, every year.  Of course Illinois would want him to coach there.  Same with damn near every school in the country.

To illustrate my point, I'd be willing to bet Bill Self has more respect for the Illinois job than you do. He can be flattered by the gesture without actually wanting the position.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1033 on: July 14, 2023, 07:52:53 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 13, 2023, 08:26:57 PM
Funny to “us fans” as you like to say. Just business to Bill Self and Josh Whitman I would think. They don’t have your hangups.

They certainly don’t have your naïveté about the CBB business.

I’ve known a lot of people in CBB and high level HS basketball, and have never met one that views things like you do - because you think of things steadfastly as an Illinois basketball fan and never take a step back and try to see it from the perspective of someone without that emotional connection.

Like, maybe we should text Coach K?  Couldn’t hurt, maybe he’d be flattered.  He might be bored, you never know!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 08:13:16 AM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #1034 on: July 14, 2023, 08:01:14 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 14, 2023, 01:46:09 AM
To illustrate my point, I'd be willing to bet Bill Self has more respect for the Illinois job than you do. He can be flattered by the gesture without actually wanting the position.

You go on and on about how I don’t have “respect” for the Illinois job.  It’s a straw man, a deflection.  I don’t treat Illinois like a blue blood in the same way you do, that’s true.  I recognize that we’re a good program but that’s it, we’re not some sleeping giant secret blue blood that inspires blind loyalty in anyone within 120 miles.  Frankly, most people throughout CBB do not view us that way, outside of Illinois fan boards.

You have a very fan-centric view of our program.  Of course we can get the coach (Stevens, Smart, Donovan, Sean Miller, etc.).  Of course a kid from Chicago loves Illinois basketball even though they have been mediocre his entire life - it’s Illinois, after all!

It makes sense because you’re a lifelong fan.  But at some point it’s probably worth taking a step back and recognizing that you think that way BECAUSE you’re a lifelong Illinois fan.  Most people in the basketball world do not view our program that way at this point if they ever did, and expecting that they do is a phenomenal way to end up with the backup to your backup option.

Ron Guenther thought like you do to some degree.  Of course I can get Self to stay, we’re Illinois.  Of course Bruce Weber will be great here, we’re Illinois, we don’t need a Self - our program sells itself.  He was just wrong though.  There’s nothing more special about Illinois basketball than any dozen or two other similar programs out there.  You think there is as a lifelong Illini fan of course, but you project that onto basically everyone else nationally and it just doesn’t follow reality.
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