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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

Show of hands

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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #150 on: April 19, 2023, 03:55:07 PM »
Outside of Final Fours, 1 seeds, high seeds in general, fan support, budget, and history over several decades that heavily favors one side over the other, yes, you’re right. I haven’t.

If Reggie Theus ever coached at ASU, I am sure you would change your tune.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #151 on: April 19, 2023, 03:59:44 PM »
If Reggie Theus ever coached at ASU, I am sure you would change your tune.

This shit is stale

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #152 on: April 19, 2023, 04:00:38 PM »
Outside of Final Fours, 1 seeds, high seeds in general, fan support, budget, and history over several decades that heavily favors one side over the other, yes, you’re right. I haven’t.

I mean yes. Zero of the things you list here are a reason that mediocre results at ASU should be considered comparable to better results at Illinois.

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #153 on: April 19, 2023, 04:02:17 PM »
This shit is stale

It’s never stopped them before. They been doing it 3-5 years minimum.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #154 on: April 19, 2023, 04:04:23 PM »
I mean yes. Zero of the things you list here are a reason that mediocre results at ASU should be considered comparable to better results at Illinois.

The point is there is a competitive advantage at Illinois. It’s crazy to deny that. I suspect Hurley and Underwood are comparable coaches. Neither a significant upgrade over the other.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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Jobu

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #155 on: April 19, 2023, 04:05:23 PM »
This shit is stale

This whole fucking conversation is getting stale.  Don't let it stop you guys tho.
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #156 on: April 19, 2023, 04:06:08 PM »
This whole fucking conversation is getting stale.  Don't let it stop you guys tho.

Ok. Thanks.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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Jobu

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #157 on: April 19, 2023, 04:08:53 PM »
No problem.  I actually kinda, sorta enjoy watching you guys repeat yourselves over and over.  It's kinda boring, but it's the end of the workday so fuck it.
Fucking coward. Don’t fucking snipe me you fucking…KIKE BITCH! - Meyers Leonard
Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock. Priorities?!

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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #158 on: April 19, 2023, 04:09:45 PM »
This shit is stale

I should have referred to 3-5 other Tempo memes instead.

Chump edit: Tempo beat me to it.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #159 on: April 19, 2023, 04:10:32 PM »
The point is there is a competitive advantage at Illinois. It’s crazy to deny that. I suspect Hurley and Underwood are comparable coaches. Neither a significant upgrade over the other.

As long as you totally ignore their results - and not just at ASU and Illinois, notably - then sure.

I'm not willing to ignore their actual, objective results to make an argument based on how I feel.

As an extreme illustrative example, it's kind of like saying that Roy Williams and John Groce are comparable coaches - sure one of them had notably better results than the other, but he got them at Kansas and UNC while the other got his at Illinois, Akron, and Ohio, so they're really comparable.  Switch Roy Williams at UNC and Groce at Illinois, which program turns out better?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 04:12:29 PM by spark mandrill »

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Jobu

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #160 on: April 19, 2023, 04:11:00 PM »
I should have referred to 3-5 other Tempo memes instead.

I didn't expect you to do that, but I wouldn't have been surprised if you did.
Fucking coward. Don’t fucking snipe me you fucking…KIKE BITCH! - Meyers Leonard
Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock. Priorities?!

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #161 on: April 19, 2023, 04:12:18 PM »
I didn't expect you to do that, but I wouldn't have been surprised if you did.

Well done.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #162 on: April 19, 2023, 04:28:12 PM »
Can’t find it, but somewhere I read that “Bill Self won 75% of his games and 4 tourney games at Tulsa.” Yet for some reason he left. And I’m thinking it wasn’t only money.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #163 on: April 19, 2023, 04:40:10 PM »
Can’t find it, but somewhere I read that “Bill Self won 75% of his games and 4 tourney games at Tulsa.” Yet for some reason he left. And I’m thinking it wasn’t only money.

Really?  Surely no one could produce results like that at a program without the history and fanbase of an Illinois.

You're still not even addressing the actual argument.  Zero people have said it doesn't make sense to move to bigger/more high profile jobs.

What we were discussing, if you remember, is whether it makes sense to claim that one coach is 'comparable' - even better at X's and O's! -  to another coach despite notably better results because of the history / fanbase / whatever of the program.  It makes no sense, and isn't at all related to whether a coach would move from a mid-major to a high-major or a high-major to a blueblood.  Calling a guy who won a lot at UNC 'comparable' to a guy who won notably less at Illinois doesn't make any sense, even though UNC is obviously the much bigger, more nationally relevant, etc. program.

Those moves aren't always about winning more either, by the way.  Probably not even most of the time - surely they know at this point that moving from a mid-major where you've had quite a bit of national success to a high-major where the expectations are higher but there's no promises you will actually be able to compete is very risky.  That's why more and more guys in 2023 are staying longer - sometimes even their whole careers - at mid-majors instead of jumping at the first major conference offer.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 04:45:12 PM by spark mandrill »

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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #164 on: April 19, 2023, 04:48:22 PM »
Can’t find it, but somewhere I read that “Bill Self won 75% of his games and 4 tourney games at Tulsa.” Yet for some reason he left. And I’m thinking it wasn’t only money.

I'm thinking it was money. Who would not want to live on Tulsa Time?
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"