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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #120 on: April 19, 2023, 03:16:57 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:12:41 PM
Why’d you avoid the question?

20 years ago there’s no doubt you’d have laughed at anyone who thought Gonzaga would ever be competitive with the Illinois’ of the world.  They have no history and play in a rinky dink arena in a rinky dink league, in a small town.

There’s one reason Bobby Hurley’s results have been notably worse than Underwood’s at every stop, and it ain’t because of the success the programs had 20 years ago.

If and when ASU gets an all-time coach to stay there 25 years I’ll tell you you were right.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #121 on: April 19, 2023, 03:17:21 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:15:47 PM
“I just felt that playing for my home state and investing in my home state meant more than it would at another school,” Dosunmu told SB Nation. “I thought I had a chance to do something special at Illinois.”

“Illinois is our state program,” Dosunmu’s father told SB Nation. “We want Illinois to be on top. We believed we had the right pieces and could turn it around.”

“We like challenges. We like building things. We’re a hard working family. Illinois was a perfect fit.”

“Five to 10 years from now, the legacy I leave at my home school will mean more than anywhere else.”

That does not say anything about his number one goal.  Which was to get to the NBA.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #122 on: April 19, 2023, 03:17:25 PM »
I don't know man, I feel like the root of this is the same as the root of many of our arguments back in the day.

You consistently argue based on how you feel about something.  You feel like Illinois produces more talent than Arizona, so you state that and use it as evidence.  You feel like Underwood and Hurley are comparable, so you state that and give some nebulous reason why their results aren't comparable.  You feel that Illinois is a sleeping giant that should get any coach they want because we're Illinois.

I'm more interested in like, objective reality.  Which state actually produced more talent?  Which coach has actually produced better results?  Which coaches actually sign on to come to Illinois?
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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #123 on: April 19, 2023, 03:18:20 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 19, 2023, 03:17:21 PM
That does not say anything about his number one goal.  Which was to get to the NBA.

That was his number one personal goal. No shit, Sherlock. His number one stated reason for choosing Illinois was to be the pied Piper that brought Illinois back.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #124 on: April 19, 2023, 03:18:30 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:16:57 PM
If and when ASU gets an all-time coach to stay there 25 years I’ll tell you you were right.

Mark Few wasn't an all time coach 20 years ago.

He's become one, by winning a ton of games.

Again, you'd have reacted EXACTLY the same to this discussion about Gonzaga and Illinois 20 years ago, but you'd have been wrong, because reality isn't that interested in how you FEEL about the two programs' potential.  The results are the results.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #125 on: April 19, 2023, 03:18:49 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:18:20 PM
That was his number one personal goal. No shit, Sherlock. His number one stated reason for choosing Illinois was to be the pied Piper that brought it back.

I'm actually curious, do you really think this is why Ayo came to Illinois?

Not for .. other reasons?
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #126 on: April 19, 2023, 03:20:01 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:17:25 PM
I don't know man, I feel like the root of this is the same as the root of many of our arguments back in the day.

You consistently argue based on how you feel about something.  You feel like Illinois produces more talent than Arizona, so you state that and use it as evidence.  You feel like Underwood and Hurley are comparable, so you state that and give some nebulous reason why their results aren't comparable.  You feel that Illinois is a sleeping giant that should get any coach they want because we're Illinois.

I'm more interested in like, objective reality.  Which state actually produced more talent?  Which coach has actually produced better results?  Which coaches actually sign on to come to Illinois?

He FEELS that Justin Fields plays like an actual NFL QB instead of a wingback.....We know that Fields does not get to call the plays.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #127 on: April 19, 2023, 03:20:36 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:18:20 PM
That was his number one personal goal. No shit, Sherlock. His number one stated reason for choosing Illinois was to be the pied Piper that brought Illinois back.

Maybe you should be clearer in your verbiage. Which takes us right back to the wording of the poll question.
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #128 on: April 19, 2023, 03:22:02 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:18:30 PM
Mark Few wasn't an all time coach 20 years ago.


No shit.
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Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #129 on: April 19, 2023, 03:22:43 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:18:49 PM
I'm actually curious, do you really think this is why Ayo came to Illinois?

Not for .. other reasons?

I’m sure there was more than one reason.
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Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #130 on: April 19, 2023, 03:24:20 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:18:30 PM
The results are the results.

Says the guy who thinks one Final Four in 8-9 years is essentially the same as a title and 4 Final Fours in 6 years.
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Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #131 on: April 19, 2023, 03:24:48 PM »
He surely wanted to resurrect our program once he committed (obviously no one picks their college program to go lose), but I suspect if someone else had wanted him to resurrect their program.. more .. he'd have listened.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #132 on: April 19, 2023, 03:25:14 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:24:20 PM
Says the guy who thinks one Final Four in 8-9 years is essentially the same as a title and 4 Final Fours in 6 years.

The guy who judged the entire tenures at those places and posted objective numbers, rather than cherry picking the first 6 years at a place and ignoring the last 6 (Calipari has 6 tournament wins the last six years, equalling his worst stretch when he took over Memphis)

He's coached at three schools.  Two mid-majors and a blue blood.

He took all three of them to the Final Four.  Two of them, he left right after - so arguing about how many Final Fours or Titles he'd have had if he'd stayed is useless, no one can know.  I suspect more than one.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 03:26:55 PM by spark mandrill »
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #133 on: April 19, 2023, 03:28:19 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:24:48 PM
He surely wanted to resurrect our program once he committed (obviously no one picks their college program to go lose), but I suspect if someone else had wanted him to resurrect their program.. more .. he'd have listened.

Anthony Longstreet: “Show me the canceled check!”
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Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2023, 03:29:41 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:25:14 PM
The guy who judged the entire tenures at those places and posted objective numbers, rather than cherry picking the first 6 years at a place and ignoring the last 6 (Calipari has 6 tournament wins the last six years, equalling his worst stretch when he took over Memphis)

He's coached at three schools.  Two mid-majors and a blue blood.

He took all three of them to the Final Four.  Two of them, he left right after - so arguing about how many Final Fours or Titles he'd have had if he'd stayed is useless, no one can know.  I suspect more than one.

So do you feel Calipari’s stint at Memphis was “just as successful” as Kentucky? I’ll hang up and listen.
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Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”
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