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Izzhoes

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Custard

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #210 on: January 16, 2023, 09:52:58 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on January 16, 2023, 09:49:12 AM
This is why Custard is a coach shill. Giving him the credit for “developing” Ayo. Now that’s funny. Ayo was a self-driven program changing player from day 1. Might have been better at Duke. Who knows?

It’s perfectly acceptable to say Underwood has been a perfectly competent head coach who seems to have a knack for putting together staffs and teams that perform well. That’s not over or under selling it.

Ayo played 3 years at Illinois. It would be insanely idiotic to say there was no player development that took place, even without the instances Ayo himself has publicly credited his time at UI as having prepared him for the NBA.
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Dominic

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #211 on: January 16, 2023, 09:54:39 AM »
Quote from: Custard on January 16, 2023, 12:42:40 AM
JFC. I have addressed this before but I’ll get sucked back in again. It’s one of the stupidest arguments I’ve ever seen put forth on any fan forum.

Who assembled the staff that brought this guy who had been playing basketball for a couple years to Champaign and coached him out of a deferential mindset and a bit of a butterball body into a chiseled two time All American?

Then, when Underachiever lost his entire staff, who replaced those guys with another staff that won another B1G title, and that pulled in a top 10 prep class, a top 3 transfer class, and has three top 15 KenPom wins with basically an entirely new team this year? Without Kofi?

Yeah there are growing pains after losing all the starters and 80 some percent of our scoring from last year. But then there’s IU who brought back the same team, added some young talent, was picked to win the B1G, and is now 2-4 in the league.

It’s one thing if you’re saying Weber inherited a bunch of talent and won with it then sucked after it was gone because he couldn’t recruit. Because that’s reality. Brad Underwood has performed at a pretty high level at every stop. He’s been stubborn at times and stuck with flawed philosophies for too long, but he has a very solid history of making adjustments and finishing seasons strong. Until the tourney at least. But even then he performed above expecatations with SFA in the tourney. Despite a lack of tourney success, Illinois basketball is in exponentially better shape than it was at any time from 2005-06 until Underwood got his own guys in here. To argue otherwise is sheer idiocy.

Kofi is one dude. He’s an Illini legend. He should have stayed for this year, he’d be getting paid, laid, and we’d be a top 5 team. But bagging on Underwood because he recruited and coached up a player that got us a lot of wins is one of the most idiotic takes I’ve ever seen in my time as an Illinois message board poster.

He GOT Kofi. He and two different staffs MADE Kofi. Attributing Underachiever’s success to Kofi is a de facto endorsement of Underachiever. It’s both sad and hilarious that it’s beyond your perception.

Underwood's teams SUCK when they don't have Kofi Cockburn on them.  That includes this years team.  Look at the Mizzou game.  Look at the NW game. Look at Penn State.  Look at Underwood's record at Illinois before Kofi arrived.

Underwood didn't build anything at SFA. They were great before he got there.
Underwood didn't build anything at Oklahoma State.  He inherited an NBA PG and had a mediocre at best team in one season there.
Underwood wasn't building anything at Illinois until he got Kofi.  Kofi built the success. Kofi's gone. Success is gone.

Underwood will N-E-V-E-R win another Big 10 Title.  Ever. Period.
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Dominic

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #212 on: January 16, 2023, 09:58:32 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 16, 2023, 08:19:24 AM
Dainja reminds me of Oliver Miller with his length, hands, and ball skills. That was a different era. Dainja needs a better face up game. Miller got out of shape, ballooned to 380 lbs. Dainja needs to stay in shape.

Dom contradicts himself all the time. He thinks Dainja can't develop further because he is too old.

Harris is the same age, but he can develop because he is an NBA athlete. 

Rodgers is two years younger, is a rugged NBA athlete, has better handles and passing skills than Harris, and can guard 1 - 5.  Dom seems to think he can't possibly develop a jump shot.

Well dumbass, generally guys with athleticism have much higher upsides than guys that don't.  Dainja is maxed out bc he's a poor athete and it's his 3rd year of college.

Rodgers is nowhere close to an NBA athlete. You clearly don't watch the NBA if you think he is.   And what 5 is Rodgers going to guard?  Hell what 4 can he even contest a 3 against?

Put Rodgers on Edey lets see what happens. 
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Reacher

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #213 on: January 16, 2023, 09:59:13 AM »
Again, for the reading comprehension challenged people out there. Underwood has proven himself to be a very effective recruiter and program leader. I think the jury could still be out on his actual coaching chops. He’s adequate. Which if you know how to recruit and put together a program is good enough. Underwood is a very good overall college basketball coach. Probably in the Rick Barnes mold, and there’s nothing wrong with that at all.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #214 on: January 16, 2023, 10:01:37 AM »
Quote from: Dominic on January 16, 2023, 09:54:39 AM

Underwood will N-E-V-E-R win another Big 10 Title.  Ever. Period.

Wouldn’t go that far at all. He’s put himself behind the 8ball for this year with the bad start. Izzo is past his prime. There are no coaches in this league that make me fearful Underwood can’t compete at the highest level of the league most years.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #215 on: January 16, 2023, 10:02:28 AM »
Will say that Painter has reached a level I never saw coming.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #216 on: January 16, 2023, 10:04:43 AM »
Quote from: Custard on January 16, 2023, 09:52:58 AM
Ayo played 3 years at Illinois. It would be insanely idiotic to say there was no player development that took place, even without the instances Ayo himself has publicly credited his time at UI as having prepared him for the NBA.

Never said “no development took place.” But Ayo was likely on his path from day 1. Took him 3 years to get to where he wanted to be year 1.

I also don’t credit Lou Henson for developing Nick Anderson.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Dominic

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #217 on: January 16, 2023, 10:05:46 AM »
Quote from: Custard on January 16, 2023, 09:50:27 AM
There’s no reason at all to think he can’t or won’t do the exact same thing again.

Yes there is.

Because Kofi Cockburn's are once in a generation type players.   You can find plenty of wing players like Ayo or Shannon and still have the team suck.  Underwood lost 21 games with Ayo playing lead guard.  Underwood is on is way to losing 16+ games this year with Shannon as lead guard.

Kofi was the difference.  That's it.  There was nothing else.

Underwood has no coaching advantages here.  He doesn't get more out of his talent.   

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Reacher

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #218 on: January 16, 2023, 10:08:56 AM »
Quote from: Dominic on January 16, 2023, 10:05:46 AM
Yes there is.

Because Kofi Cockburn's are once in a generation type players.   You can find plenty of wing players like Ayo or Shannon and still have the team suck.  Underwood lost 21 games with Ayo playing lead guard.  Underwood is on is way to losing 16+ games this year with Shannon as lead guard.

Kofi was the difference.  That's it.  There was nothing else.

Underwood has no coaching advantages here.  He doesn't get more out of his talent.

I think there’s some middle ground here between you and Custard, but no one wants to hear that.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Dominic

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #219 on: January 16, 2023, 10:16:24 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on January 16, 2023, 10:08:56 AM
I think there’s some middle ground here between you and Custard, but no one wants to hear that.

This year's team is the first 100% fully recruited Underwood team.  Do you like the basketball being played on it?  Does anyone?  This is his handpicked roster running whatever it is he wants to run with "interchangeable" parts.   
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FaninCa

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #220 on: January 16, 2023, 10:19:24 AM »
A 16+ loss season means finishing 5-11.  Dom better start praying for a season ending injury to Shannon.

The incessant troll owes the board another squeaky video if the 16+ loss season doesn't happen. He can whine about how Underwood was "lucky" to recruit Shannon and cry about "homer officiating."
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Reacher

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #221 on: January 16, 2023, 10:23:22 AM »
Quote from: Dominic on January 16, 2023, 10:16:24 AM
This year's team is the first 100% fully recruited Underwood team.  Do you like the basketball being played on it?  Does anyone?  This is his handpicked roster running whatever it is he wants to run with "interchangeable" parts.   

At times they’ve looked good. Not often enough though. I’ve generally been pretty happy with the way Underwood teams get better throughout the season (until tourney time). And that can probably be attributed to good coaching. I think this year is important to the narrative we’re discussing here. If Underwood flops with this team, it will be a big failure. I think the arrow is pointed up, but we’ve seen them poop the bed multiple times already this year.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Dominic

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #222 on: January 16, 2023, 10:27:04 AM »
Quote from: FaninCa on January 16, 2023, 10:19:24 AM
A 16+ loss season means finishing 5-11.  Dom better start praying for a season ending injury to Shannon.

The incessant troll owes the board another squeaky video if the 16+ loss season doesn't happen. He can whine about how Underwood was "lucky" to recruit Shannon and cry about "homer officiating."

They were down by 35 points to Mizzou with Shannon.  He can play every game.  Illinois absolutely stinks even with him.

Here's 6 for sure road losses: (Wisconsin, Iowa, Penn State, Indiana, Ohio State, Purdue).
They'll lose at least 3 of these home games (Indiana, Ohio State, Rutgers, Michigan, Northwestern)
Then throw in a loss in the BTT.
And a closing loss in the NIT.

11 losses.

So you better hope they win tonight, or you're looking at potentially 12 losses.

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FaninCa

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #223 on: January 16, 2023, 10:28:44 AM »
With the large roster turnover from last year, it's no surprise this year's team has really struggled at times.

I'm not an Underwood fan and don't see him recruiting enough talent to make a Sweet 16 run.  The argument that he's terrible and his teams will be .500 teams is dumb though.

Underwood will likely continue producing tournament teams that get bounced early on by better coached programs.
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Reacher

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Re: Izzhoes
« Reply #224 on: January 16, 2023, 10:34:51 AM »
Quote from: FaninCa on January 16, 2023, 10:28:44 AM
With the large roster turnover from last year, it's no surprise this year's team has really struggled at times.

I'm not an Underwood fan and don't see him recruiting enough talent to make a Sweet 16 run.  The argument that he's terrible and his teams will be .500 teams is dumb though.

Underwood will likely continue producing tournament teams that get bounced early on by better coached programs.

Struggled at times would be one thing. Getting absolutely butt plugged by Mizzou and Penn State at home are another.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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