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WTF is wrong with the left?

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3540 on: June 14, 2023, 12:42:41 PM »
I don't think he'd assault the person either, but you're missing the point either intentionally or otherwise.

The fact that he is emboldened to say that - and you embolden him actively to say that by arguing not against the comment but against the people who call the comment out - is a big fucking problem whether he'd actually have the balls to try to attack someone or not.  It's easy as a cis white straight man to be like "lol he wouldn't ACTUALLY do it" but put yourself in the mind of a trans person. There are dozens of millions of people saying shit like that every single day in this country.  How excited are you to take a chance that the one behind you in the bathroom line is one of the ones who's just bloviating?  Don't you see how wildly dehumanizing and degrading it would be to see nearly every public discussion about your identity go that way?  And to see people who to your face call themselves "allies" defending the comment (and yes, saying 'hes just SAYING he'll assault them, he probably wouldn't really DO it' is defending it), and instead going after the people who call it out?

If I said "I'll kill any white person who enters the bathroom after my daughter", that's a problem even if I don't literally murder them.  If you have that thought, there is basically  zero chance of someone - especially from the other side of the political aisle - convincing you bigotry is wrong.  You already know, nominally, that bigotry is wrong - but engage in it anyway.
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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3541 on: June 14, 2023, 12:44:30 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 14, 2023, 12:41:45 PM
He did not mean it, so what is the point? Save it for someone who means it. Otherwise it is just performative.

If it were Dom saying it, I would be right there with you.

I sincerely, sincerely doubt that.

Is this the first time ILLove has said some openly racist or bigoted shit here?  Was the comment out of character for him?  I think it's clear that he at least kind of means it given how consistently he's said shit like that for the last, oh, decade.  Certainly I've never seen someone invested in real racial justice make a "joke" like that even once, let alone multiple times a week for years.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3542 on: June 14, 2023, 12:47:44 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 14, 2023, 12:42:41 PM
I don't think he'd assault the person either, but you're missing the point either intentionally or otherwise.

The fact that he is emboldened to say that - and you embolden him actively to say that by arguing not against the comment but against the people who call the comment out - is a big fucking problem whether he'd actually have the balls to try to attack someone or not.  It's easy as a cis white straight man to be like "lol he wouldn't ACTUALLY do it" but put yourself in the mind of a trans person. There are dozens of millions of people saying shit like that every single day in this country.  How excited are you to take a chance that the one behind you in the bathroom line is one of the ones who's just bloviating?  Don't you see how wildly dehumanizing and degrading it would be to see nearly every public discussion about your identity go that way?  And to see people who to your face call themselves "allies" defending the comment (and yes, saying 'hes just SAYING he'll assault them, he probably wouldn't really DO it' is defending it), and instead going after the people who call it out?

If I said "I'll kill any white person who enters the bathroom after my daughter", that's a problem even if I don't literally murder them.  If you have that thought, there is basically  zero chance of someone - especially from the other side of the political aisle - convincing you bigotry is wrong.  You already know, nominally, that bigotry is wrong - but engage in it anyway.

I'm more worried about the yahoos at the trailer park that say that shit than JudgeJudy or 97 saying it on an Illini message board of 10 people. You may want to focus your efforts on Twitter, 4Chan, 8Chan, 15Chan, Discord, Truth Social, blah blah blah. You are wasting your performance on 10 people. But then again, that may be your point.
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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3543 on: June 14, 2023, 12:50:14 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 14, 2023, 12:47:44 PM
I'm more worried about the yahoos at the trailer park that say that shit than JudgeJudy or 97 saying it on an Illini message board of 10 people. You may want to focus your efforts on Twitter, 4Chan, 8Chan, 15Chan, Discord, Truth Social, blah blah blah. You are wasting your performance on 10 people. But then again, that may be your point.

10 people?  A few minutes ago I was swinging the results of a presidential election.

Like I said yesterday, I was perfectly content calling some stupid racist shit said on this message board stupid and racist.  You did not accept that, despite your "free speech" stance.  You've been lecturing me about it for, what, a week now?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3544 on: June 14, 2023, 12:57:01 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 14, 2023, 12:50:14 PM
10 people?  A few minutes ago I was swinging the results of a presidential election.

Like I said yesterday, I was perfectly content calling some stupid racist shit said on this message board stupid and racist.  You did not accept that, despite your "free speech" stance.  You've been lecturing me about it for, what, a week now?

Nice straw. There are many just like you out there, as we unfortunately found out in 2016.

Again, you intentionally avoid the point of the whole discussion. Maybe it is psychological, I do not know?

I do now know this is all performance art, virtue signaling, whatever you want to call it, on your part though. You obviously have some need to feel morally, and intellectually, superior over the 10 people here. Glad to do my part!
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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3545 on: June 14, 2023, 12:59:24 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 14, 2023, 12:57:01 PM
Nice straw. There are many just like you out there, as we unfortunately found out in 2016.

Again, you intentionally avoid the point of the whole discussion. Maybe it is psychological, I do not know?

I do now know this is all performance art, virtue signaling, whatever you want to call it, on your part though. You obviously have some need to feel morally, and intellectually, superior over the 10 people here. Glad to do my part!

Which part was straw?

You've lectured me for multiple days now about how I was going to lose the election by calling out bigotry on a message board because I used the word 'bigot' and had called the person 'stupid' previously.  Then, when it was more convenient for you, you mocked me for calling out bigotry on a message board because it only has 10 regulars.

Any part of that false?

I tend to think people who say openly racist shit in public are probably not particularly good people.  If you want to mock that stance as 'morally superior', go right on ahead.  Without 'morally superior' people who decided bigotry was wrong and unacceptable, we'd have made very little progress ever as a civilization.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 01:02:37 PM by spark mandrill »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3546 on: June 14, 2023, 01:01:45 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 14, 2023, 12:59:24 PM
Which part was straw?

You've lectured me for multiple days now about how I was going to lose the election by calling out bigotry on a message board because I used the word 'bigot' and had called the person 'stupid' previously.  Then, when it was more convenient for you, you mocked me for calling out bigotry on a message board because it only has 10 regulars.

Any part of that false?

That you were swinging the election by yourself. There are many like you. Yes, I said that you and your ilk are going to lose the election by calling people "bigots" and "stupid".
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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3547 on: June 14, 2023, 01:07:19 PM »
But when it was more convenient you mocked me for 'virtue signalling' (i.e., pointing out when someone says some openly bigoted shit here) because there are only 10 people.

Want it both ways, which - of course you do.

It's kind of amazing given you and Judy have been posting here together for so long that you haven't changed his mind yet.  Seems like you would've, given how sure you are that this will be the first time ever the strategy works.
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3548 on: June 14, 2023, 01:33:00 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on June 14, 2023, 11:13:36 AM
who enslaved them? PaMan?

His country, and forefathers. At least he claims them when it’s convenient.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3549 on: June 14, 2023, 01:41:20 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 14, 2023, 12:37:30 PM
You obviously are unaware of George Wallace so how can you even consider that you may be wrong in your assessment?

You also obviously believe JudgeJudy's mind is made up on the bathroom issue. I do not and do not believe he would actually assault said person.

I’m not sure that being nice to George Wallace about his racist views is what tipped it in for him. Certainly not provable.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3550 on: June 14, 2023, 01:42:22 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 14, 2023, 12:41:45 PM
He did not mean it, so what is the point? Save it for someone who means it. Otherwise it is just performative.



Like 99% of PAMan’s “work” these days?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3551 on: June 14, 2023, 01:43:45 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 14, 2023, 12:42:41 PM
I don't think he'd assault the person either, but you're missing the point either intentionally or otherwise.

The fact that he is emboldened to say that - and you embolden him actively to say that by arguing not against the comment but against the people who call the comment out - is a big fucking problem whether he'd actually have the balls to try to attack someone or not.  It's easy as a cis white straight man to be like "lol he wouldn't ACTUALLY do it" but put yourself in the mind of a trans person. There are dozens of millions of people saying shit like that every single day in this country.  How excited are you to take a chance that the one behind you in the bathroom line is one of the ones who's just bloviating?  Don't you see how wildly dehumanizing and degrading it would be to see nearly every public discussion about your identity go that way?  And to see people who to your face call themselves "allies" defending the comment (and yes, saying 'hes just SAYING he'll assault them, he probably wouldn't really DO it' is defending it), and instead going after the people who call it out?

If I said "I'll kill any white person who enters the bathroom after my daughter", that's a problem even if I don't literally murder them.  If you have that thought, there is basically  zero chance of someone - especially from the other side of the political aisle - convincing you bigotry is wrong.  You already know, nominally, that bigotry is wrong - but engage in it anyway.

Appealing to PAMan’s empathetic side is a losing cause. But good work.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3552 on: June 14, 2023, 01:45:27 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 14, 2023, 12:50:14 PM
10 people?  A few minutes ago I was swinging the results of a presidential election.

Like I said yesterday, I was perfectly content calling some stupid racist shit said on this message board stupid and racist.  You did not accept that, despite your "free speech" stance.  You've been lecturing me about it for, what, a week now?

You cost us the election by hollering into an empty abyss.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3553 on: June 14, 2023, 01:46:50 PM »
Here’s a nugget for PAMan. The people angered by Hillary’s “basket of deplorables” comment weren’t voting for her under any condition.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3554 on: June 14, 2023, 01:47:34 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on June 14, 2023, 01:41:20 PM
I’m not sure that being nice to George Wallace about his racist views is what tipped it in for him. Certainly not provable.

Far from being changed by people being nice to him, he largely changed his tune once he was shot.
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