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WTF is wrong with the left?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3570 on: June 14, 2023, 03:40:38 PM »
You turned that into blaming me for losing the 2016 election.  I didn't turn the discussion into that at all.  I called the post stupid and you started ranting about me and Tempo virtue signalling and how calling a bigot a bigot is going to lose the election.

Since you kept arguing that your tactics were not counterproductive, yes, real life examples were provided.

I enjoy the hyperbole though.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3571 on: June 14, 2023, 03:41:06 PM »
You're welcome to be unsure of whatever you want, but the fact remains.

No arguing the facts here, that is true.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3572 on: June 14, 2023, 03:43:04 PM »
Since you kept arguing that your tactics were not counterproductive, yes, real life examples were provided.

I enjoy the hyperbole though.

Hahaha, no matter how many times I asked for real world examples you provided none, because none exist.

"Don't call the bigots bigots or you'll hurt their feelings and they won't listen to you and change their mind" is a strategy that's just never worked, ever.  It's not a surprise you didn't provide a single example of it working.

As I mentioned earlier - in 2016 one of the candidates made a speech about having empathy for their opponents' supporters and not assuming the worst of them.  It was one of the biggest campaign gaffes in recent memory, something where an out-of-context soundbite that removed the meaning of the speech is STILL used to show how dumb the candidate was and why she lost.

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3573 on: June 14, 2023, 03:45:12 PM »
Hahaha, no matter how many times I asked for real world examples you provided none, because none exist.

"Don't call the bigots bigots or you'll hurt their feelings and they won't listen to you and change their mind" is a strategy that's just never worked, ever.  It's not a surprise you didn't provide a single example of it working.

Talk about Trumpian. Just keep repeating it and believe it is true. Well done.



Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3574 on: June 14, 2023, 03:45:55 PM »
I mean, now's your chance.  Come up with an example of the "don't call a bigot a bigot because they'll stop listening to you" strategy working.  Just one.

I mentioned an example of a notable POTUS candidate trying to speak to empathy for their opponents' supporters.  They were uniformly BLASTED for it, and they lost.

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3575 on: June 14, 2023, 04:09:02 PM »
Yep. Speaking to an LBGT audience, before the Q was added, a candidate dared to suggested we put her opponent's supporters, who her audience despised, in two baskets.

She said, "the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."

The liberal media completely ignored that part of her speech. Instead of a two baskets speech, it became known as the basket of deplorables speech.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3576 on: June 14, 2023, 04:12:08 PM »
I mean, now's your chance.  Come up with an example of the "don't call a bigot a bigot because they'll stop listening to you" strategy working.  Just one.

I mentioned an example of a notable POTUS candidate trying to speak to empathy for their opponents' supporters.  They were uniformly BLASTED for it, and they lost.

I do not think that is quite the accurate summary of the discussion. Despite the, undoubtedly willful, distortion, you claimed George Wallace only changed after he got shot. As for the timeline, sure, that is accurate. As for the intent for the 180 change, I doubt it. He was visited by a black politician in the hospital after he was shot. He subsequently apologized and asked for forgiveness for his prior racist views after he became a born again Christian. He appointed Blacks to his cabinet and to state offices the last time he was governor. 

What about Robert Byrd? He was in the KKK as a young man. Certainly changed his tune.

Do you think, in both instances, the changes occurred because someone got in their face and called them "bigots" or because, maybe, a Shirley Chisholm meeting with George Wallace while he was in the hospital and sought other ways to change his racist views got Wallace moving in the right direction?

Now, you tell me, who has been hectored by being called "stupid" or a "bigot" and cared to listen to the speaker and changed their mind? You are honestly going to tell me that calling Judge Judy "stupid" or a "bigot" is going to change his mind? By calling out his views sans such words you do not believe you have a better chance of changing his mind?
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3577 on: June 14, 2023, 04:12:49 PM »
Yep. Speaking to an LBGT audience, before the Q was added, a candidate dared to suggested we put her opponent's supporters, who her audience despised, in two baskets.

She said, "the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."

The liberal media completely ignored that part of her speech. Instead of a two baskets speech, it became known as the basket of deplorables speech.

Worked out really well, didn't it?
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3578 on: June 14, 2023, 04:17:45 PM »
Wallace publicly became a born again Christian after he was shot.

I’ve made it clear that I don’t believe anything a liberal says to a “I’ll assault them for existing” type bigot is going to change their mind.  That isn’t how the civil rights movement was successful, either - they didn’t change the mind of the vociferous racists.  If they had we wouldn’t still be dealing with it right now.  They made people who knew it was wrong speak up so being openly racist wasn’t socially acceptable anymore.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 04:19:42 PM by spark mandrill »

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3579 on: June 14, 2023, 04:18:08 PM »
Worked out really well, didn't it?

I mean, do you think that supported your point?  It didn’t.

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3580 on: June 14, 2023, 04:19:12 PM »
I mean, do you think that supported your point?  It didn’t.

It is known as the "Deplorables Speech."
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3581 on: June 14, 2023, 04:19:30 PM »
Wallace publicly became a born again Christian after he was shot.

No shit, Sherlock.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3582 on: June 14, 2023, 04:20:12 PM »
It is known as the "Deplorables Speech."

Correct.  A speech in which she tried to follow your strategy and empathize with people.  They immediately blasted her and voted for, you guessed it, an open bigot.

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3583 on: June 14, 2023, 04:20:48 PM »
No shit, Sherlock.

?? You’re attributing it to something else that coincidentally confirms your preconception.

Wallace was, by most accounts, interested in power over principles.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 04:23:15 PM by spark mandrill »

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #3584 on: June 14, 2023, 04:22:52 PM »
Is it ironic that the guy the two members of the Strawman Brigade accuse of having no empathy suggests they try appealing to the empathy of others?
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"