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WTF is wrong with the left?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2460 on: May 26, 2022, 09:59:22 AM »
Quote from: Mn on May 26, 2022, 07:56:59 AM
From Andy McCarthy. Sounds vaguely similar what I started to post on Tues but didn't.
"Durham has banked his case on the premise that the FBI was a dupe rather than a willing, though cagey participant in the Russiagate farce. That turns what looks like a slam-dunk false statement into a very tough case for prosecutors."
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/fbi-leadership-russiagate-durham-job-sussman-trial.amp

The post essentially began as an apology to Nichi in that he was correct in saying that the lie was not material, and went along the lines of ....
Joffe and Sussman could have given a couple of 1st graders $1 and some Pokemon cards to go to the FBI and the media. The FBI just needed the story to be planted.
Time was running short before the election tho. An October surprise was needed. Sussman's badge allowed him the opportunity to walk thru the front door and waltz around the halls of the FBI.
The Chicago field office was told to open a full investigation, identities of the storyline providers were not to be known and the person who allegedly wrote the white papers was not to be interviewed. The idea that 2 cyber analysts dismissed the Alfa Bank data was to be ignored.
The ends were to justify the means.
The wheels were in motion.
The lie was not material.

Durham is claiming the lie about the client was material. If it was immaterial, the FBI would have done what it did anyway regardless of whether it knew who Sussman was representing.and Sussman is acquitted.

This gets to the point that I thought was addressed in the motions in limine. Sussman passing along info he knew was suspect based on the honest review of the white paper he received. I did not think that was the focus of the indictment against Sussman.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2461 on: May 26, 2022, 10:15:52 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 26, 2022, 09:59:22 AM
Durham is claiming the lie about the client was material. If it was immaterial, the FBI would have done what it did anyway regardless of whether it knew who Sussman was representing.and Sussman is acquitted.

This gets to the point that I thought was addressed in the motions in limine. Sussman passing along info he knew was suspect based on the honest review of the white paper he received. I did not think that was the focus of the indictment against Sussman.
And this is essentially what I was going to say on Tues, and McCarthy said.
Durham operating on a premise that the FBI was duped may prove to undermine him.
The FBI wasn't duped. They hid what they needed to in order that the means to an end proceed.
The "insurance policy" was in motion.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2462 on: May 26, 2022, 12:29:47 PM »
The FBI believed Michael Sussmann was working for the DNC ... until Andrew DeFilippis coached them to believe otherwise
https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/05/24/the-fbi-believed-michael-sussmann-was-working-for-the-dnc-until-andrew-defilippis-coached-them-to-believe-otherwise/
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2463 on: May 26, 2022, 12:51:46 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on May 26, 2022, 12:29:47 PM
The FBI believed Michael Sussmann was working for the DNC ... until Andrew DeFilippis coached them to believe otherwise
https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/05/24/the-fbi-believed-michael-sussmann-was-working-for-the-dnc-until-andrew-defilippis-coached-them-to-believe-otherwise/

Have to say that makes this prosecution look like a compete boondoggle. And it still does not get around the point that the Russiagate investigation commenced because DePaul Guy shot his mouth off in a bar about hooking the Trump campaign up with the Soviets.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2464 on: May 26, 2022, 12:55:22 PM »
Quote from: Mn on May 26, 2022, 10:15:52 AM
And this is essentially what I was going to say on Tues, and McCarthy said.
Durham operating on a premise that the FBI was duped may prove to undermine him.
The FBI wasn't duped. They hid what they needed to in order that the means to an end proceed.
The "insurance policy" was in motion.

Oh come on. One would think the FBI has cyber guys who would look at the white papper and know it was trash. But this did not occur in a vacuum. There was plenty of other things going on that would cause the FBI to investigate the Trump campaign's ties to the Soviets, including that the one time head of it was a Soviet agent.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2465 on: May 26, 2022, 01:19:44 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 26, 2022, 12:51:46 PM
Have to say that makes this prosecution look like a compete boondoggle. And it still does not get around the point that the Russiagate investigation commenced because DePaul Guy shot his mouth off in a bar about hooking the Trump campaign up with the Soviets.
And one of the agents is under investigation for not disclosing exculpatory information in the FISA warrant.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2466 on: May 26, 2022, 01:23:03 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 26, 2022, 12:55:22 PM
Oh come on. One would think the FBI has cyber guys who would look at the white papper and know it was trash. But this did not occur in a vacuum. There was plenty of other things going on that would cause the FBI to investigate the Trump campaign's ties to the Soviets, including that the one time head of it was a Soviet agent.
Tell me about all of this found collusion.
Are you referring to Igor Danchenko ? He wasn't a member of the campaign.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2467 on: May 26, 2022, 01:47:01 PM »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2468 on: May 26, 2022, 01:49:15 PM »
Quote from: Mn on May 26, 2022, 01:23:03 PM
Tell me about all of this found collusion.
Are you referring to Igor Danchenko ? He wasn't a member of the campaign.

How soon we forget Paul Manafort. And, of course, Jr. and Manafort were just talking about adopting Soviet kids in that meeting with Soviet agents in Trump Tower.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2469 on: May 26, 2022, 01:57:44 PM »
Quote from: Mn on May 26, 2022, 01:19:44 PM
And one of the agents is under investigation for not disclosing exculpatory information in the FISA warrant.

And he is still 30+ indictments and, what, 10+ convictions & guilty pleas behind Mueller?
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2470 on: May 26, 2022, 02:06:51 PM »
I initially thought this was the Clinton campaign doing what Trump tried to do to Biden:  instigate an investigation of a political opponent. That would be illegal if they knowingly fed the FBI false information;  if it really were a hoax.

The problem Durham has is the information is real. Inconclusive, but real. afaik, Sussman never suggested it was proof. It was just a suggestive lead. He hoped the FBI might dig deeper and find something.

My feeling is Sussman (and Baker) wanted to keep the source of the white papers out of it because it might adversely color the investigation. I am guessing they wanted fresh eyes looking at the evidence.

In the end, they looked into it, and found it was uncorroborated. Had Sussman told them he was representing a named or anonymous client; they would have looked into it and found it uncorroborated.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2471 on: May 26, 2022, 02:49:53 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 26, 2022, 01:57:44 PM
And he is still 30+ indictments and, what, 10+ convictions & guilty pleas behind Mueller?
The Russkis try to influence every election, not just 2016. He indicted a bunch of Russkis that will never see the US, much less a US courtroom. Bfd.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2472 on: May 26, 2022, 02:51:46 PM »
Quote from: Mn on May 26, 2022, 01:47:01 PM
And here's the rest of the Gaynor image that Marcy didn't show. With a date of 9-19-2016.


A DNC attorney, saying he is a concerned citizen and acting on his own, gives the white papers to Baker.
FBI informs individuals working on the case that the source of the white papers given to Sussman is on a "close hold".
Tho Sussman may be a DNC attorney, the source of the documents is not being revealed.
There is a distinction between a DNC attorney, who is representing the campaign in the Crowdstrike investigation, presenting the papers on his own as opposed to the DNC providing the white papers thru their attorney.

Marcy also states that prosecutors threatened Gaynor with prosecution, implying that the Durham team threatened him.
It's my understanding that the FBI is investigating Gaynor for violating the "close hold" order.

Marcy included the full briefing document in her post.  Just click the link.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22035567-dx-524

In a separate post, Marcy indicated that there are actually two versions of the notes that purportedly caused Gaynor to change his mind about there being a close hold and on what source that close hold was on.

There’s Defense Exhibit 524, which has a slew of Bates stamps, and 7 redactions.
https://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Redacted-CHS-1.png

Then there's Government Exhibit 279, which has no Bates stamp at all (and lacks the protective order stamp that appears on the other pages of the exhibit).
https://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Hide-the-Bates-Stamp-2.png

Marcy says the unredacted bits in the Government Exhibit "reveal discussions of the informant and recognition that the statements of the informant “likely triggered” the press attention."  Marcy was wondering if the exhibit that was viewed by Gaynor and entered into evidence actually looked like this one does.

Good luck to the jury sorting out this mess. 
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2473 on: May 26, 2022, 02:59:34 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 26, 2022, 02:06:51 PM
I initially thought this was the Clinton campaign doing what Trump tried to do to Biden:  instigate an investigation of a political opponent. That would be illegal if they knowingly fed the FBI false information;  if it really were a hoax.

The problem Durham has is the information is real. Inconclusive, but real. afaik, Sussman never suggested it was proof. It was just a suggestive lead. He hoped the FBI might dig deeper and find something.

My feeling is Sussman (and Baker) wanted to keep the source of the white papers out of it because it might adversely color the investigation. I am guessing they wanted fresh eyes looking at the evidence.

In the end, they looked into it, and found it was uncorroborated. Had Sussman told them he was representing a named or anonymous client; they would have looked into it and found it uncorroborated.
Why did Sussman bill the Clinton campaign for $12.90 for the thumb drives that he bought at Staples a block from Perkins Coie offices ?  The thumb drives with the Alfa Bank data.
The data that Joffe was told wouldnt pass muster to a cyber guy, but would look ok to a lay person.
Everybody thought Clinton would win, and nobody would be the wiser.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 03:34:59 PM by Mn »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2474 on: May 26, 2022, 03:25:38 PM »
Quote from: Mn on May 26, 2022, 02:59:34 PM
Why did Sussman bill the Clinton campaign for $12.90 for the thumb drives that he bought at Staples a block from Perkins Coie offices ?  The thumb drives with the Alfa Bank data.
The data that Joffe was told wouldnt pass muster to a cyber guy, but would look to a lay person.
Everybody thought Clinton would win, and nobody would be the wiser.

What difference does it even make. Sussmsan's lawyers say he worked on the white papers, but did not bill them for the half hour he met with Baker. Nothing in his billing records for that day say met with FBI.

They still have the email, Baker testimony, etc.

Suppose he did lie about who he represented? Does not seem to be material.

I do think the Clinton campaign was trying to dig up dirt on Trump.  That is called American politics.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 05:34:58 PM by illiniray »
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