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WTF is wrong with the left?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2445 on: May 21, 2022, 08:38:49 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 21, 2022, 04:39:11 PM
Sussman and Baker are old friends. Baker already knew where Sussman worked and who they represented.

Sworn testimony indicates Sussman went to the FBI on his volition, not at the direction of the law firm, not at the direction of the Clinton campaign. That supports the idea that Sussman was acting as a concerned citizen.

But he billed the campaign for his time.

When the evidence points two different directions, that creates reasonable doubt in my mind.

Let's see what happens after all of the evidence is in.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2446 on: May 21, 2022, 08:42:54 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 21, 2022, 04:26:19 PM
It appears Sussman went to the FBI on his own, not at the direction of the campaign or law firm

You are assuming he needed to ask for permission from someone at the campaign before going to the FBI.

As a counter to this argument, he apparently billed the campaign for the time. Did anyone from the campaign question the bill? (Which assumes someone kn a position of power actually read the bill...) Was the bill paid?
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2447 on: May 21, 2022, 09:01:32 PM »
My question also.
Was Sussman paid for his time that Mook and Elias may say was not in the best interests of his clients and that they did not authorize ?

Also, Sussman referred to "contacts", not "clients", in his meeting with Kevin P.
Contacts can include clients.

Nonetheless, obtaining a guilty verdict for a connected Democrat in D.C. could be quite a hurdle.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2448 on: May 21, 2022, 10:55:44 PM »
I had assumed the billing records indicated "meeting with Baker or meeting FBI."

Actually, the records indicate "white papers."

Sussman could've worked on vetting the Alfa bank white papers for the campaign  and decided to talk to Baker as a concerned citizen.

Also, Baker said he still would have met with Sussman and still would followed through even if Sussman had told him he was working for HRC. He just would have forwarded the evidence to different people within the FBI. 

I am not sure Durham gets a conviction on a preponderance of the evidence, let alone reasonable doubt.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 10:58:02 PM by illiniray »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2449 on: May 22, 2022, 08:50:55 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 21, 2022, 10:55:44 PM
I had assumed the billing records indicated "meeting with Baker or meeting FBI."

Actually, the records indicate "white papers."

Sussman could've worked on vetting the Alfa bank white papers for the campaign  and decided to talk to Baker as a concerned citizen.

Also, Baker said he still would have met with Sussman and still would followed through even if Sussman had told him he was working for HRC. He just would have forwarded the evidence to different people within the FBI. 

I am not sure Durham gets a conviction on a preponderance of the evidence, let alone reasonable doubt.
Re the 'evidence' presented to Baker by the 'concerned citizen'.

"the possibility that such purported data was fabricated .........."


And ....
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/09/exclusive-researcher-behind-trump-alfa-bank-story-tried-to-furiously-fight-off-special-counsel-investigation/
Antonakakis’ claim, that in reviewing the white paper he was merely following Joffe’s instructions, reviewing the document as a non-DNS expert, is true. But the indictment made that point clear by quoting Joffe’s email to Sussmann, Antonakakis, Manos, and Lorenzen in which he asked them to review the white paper “as if you had no prior knowledge or involvement, and you were handed this document as a security expert (NOT a dns expert) and were asked: ‘Is this plausible as an explanation?’ NOT to be able to say that this is, without doubt, fact, but to merely be plausible.”

The indictment then also quoted Antonakakis’ response to Joffe and the results of that limited review: “A DNS expert would poke several holes to this hypothesis (primarily around visibility, about which very smartly you do not talk about). That being said, I do not think even the top security (non-DNS) researchers can refute your statements. Nice!”

'Noice.'
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 09:00:03 AM by Mn »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2450 on: May 22, 2022, 10:21:23 AM »
Durham apparently has a copy of Sussman's 2017 deposition, given under oath, during House Intel hearings ....

"So let me ask you this question: When you decided
to engage the two principles, one, Mr. Baker in September, and the general
counsel of (redacted) in December, you were doing that on your own volition, based
on information another client provided you. ls that correct?
A No.
Q So what was -- so did your client direct you to have those
conversations?
A Yes."
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2451 on: May 22, 2022, 01:12:01 PM »
Quote from: Mn on May 22, 2022, 10:21:23 AM
Durham apparently has a copy of Sussman's 2017 deposition, given under oath, during House Intel hearings ....

"So let me ask you this question: When you decided to engage the two principles, one, Mr. Baker in September, and the general counsel of (redacted) in December, you were doing that on your own volition, based on information another client provided you. ls that correct?
A No.
Q So what was -- so did your client direct you to have those
conversations?
A Yes."

"In a 2017 deposition with House lawmakers, Sussmann said that he requested the meeting on behalf of a client who was a cybersecurity expert that held data he said showed ties between Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization. According to a source familiar with the matter, his legal team denied in meetings with Durham's team that his meeting with Baker was coordinated or on behalf of members of Clinton's campaign."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lawyer-firm-represented-clinton-campaign-indicted-special-counsel/story?id=80065406

He did seem to  contradict what he told Baker in 2016.  If the jury believes he lied, with the intent to deceive Baker, they still have to believe it was material. Baker said he would have investigated anyway, even if Sussman told him he was representing clients. He just would have referred the matter to different people in the FBI.

My take: Baker knew where Sussman worked and knew the firm represented HRC's campaign. Sussman told him him a white lie so he wouldn't automatically  be dismissive.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 01:14:00 PM by illiniray »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2452 on: May 22, 2022, 01:19:26 PM »
Quote from: Mn on May 22, 2022, 08:50:55 AM
Re the 'evidence' presented to Baker by the 'concerned citizen'.

"the possibility that such purported data was fabricated .........."


And ....
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/09/exclusive-researcher-behind-trump-alfa-bank-story-tried-to-furiously-fight-off-special-counsel-investigation/
Antonakakis’ claim, that in reviewing the white paper he was merely following Joffe’s instructions, reviewing the document as a non-DNS expert, is true. But the indictment made that point clear by quoting Joffe’s email to Sussmann, Antonakakis, Manos, and Lorenzen in which he asked them to review the white paper “as if you had no prior knowledge or involvement, and you were handed this document as a security expert (NOT a dns expert) and were asked: ‘Is this plausible as an explanation?’ NOT to be able to say that this is, without doubt, fact, but to merely be plausible.”

The indictment then also quoted Antonakakis’ response to Joffe and the results of that limited review: “A DNS expert would poke several holes to this hypothesis (primarily around visibility, about which very smartly you do not talk about). That being said, I do not think even the top security (non-DNS) researchers can refute your statements. Nice!”

'Noice.'

All that might be relevant if Sussman were being charged with providing false evidence to FBI. He is not. He was charged with lying about who he was or was not representing when he met with the  FBI lawyer, and that the lie materially affected the subsequent investigation into the evidence he provided. Baker pretty much said it did not.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2453 on: May 22, 2022, 02:41:57 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 22, 2022, 01:12:01 PM
"In a 2017 deposition with House lawmakers, Sussmann said that he requested the meeting on behalf of a client who was a cybersecurity expert that held data he said showed ties between Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization. According to a source familiar with the matter, his legal team denied in meetings with Durham's team that his meeting with Baker was coordinated or on behalf of members of Clinton's campaign."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lawyer-firm-represented-clinton-campaign-indicted-special-counsel/story?id=80065406

He did seem to  contradict what he told Baker in 2016.  If the jury believes he lied, with the intent to deceive Baker, they still have to believe it was material. Baker said he would have investigated anyway, even if Sussman told him he was representing clients. He just would have referred the matter to different people in the FBI.

My take: Baker knew where Sussman worked and knew the firm represented HRC's campaign. Sussman told him him a white lie so he wouldn't automatically  be dismissive.
The white lie would have hopefully never reached the desk of Peter Strzok the next day, if Sussman had been forced to go thru different procedures and thru agents.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 02:57:16 PM by Mn »
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2454 on: May 22, 2022, 04:21:45 PM »
Gee-willikers, you would think we're still weeks and weeks away from the actual trial. 

Maybe we should just wait to see where the evidence and testimony leads.  Everything else is just background noise at this point.   
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2455 on: May 22, 2022, 05:36:23 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on May 22, 2022, 04:21:45 PM
Gee-willikers, you would think we're still weeks and weeks away from the actual trial. 

Maybe we should just wait to see where the evidence and testimony leads. Everything else is just background noise at this point.

Why would we do such a thing? That is no fun..
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2456 on: May 22, 2022, 05:54:03 PM »
The Pulitzer Prize winning writers 🤡🤡 at WaPo and NYT would probably prefer everyone ignoring the "background noise". 
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2457 on: May 25, 2022, 11:37:32 AM »


fuck you plebes we're gonna merge harder now
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2458 on: May 25, 2022, 12:21:18 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on May 25, 2022, 11:37:32 AM


fuck you plebes we're gonna merge harder now

Central planning, but by self appointed private corporate monopolies, in their own interest, instead of by government bureaucrats, appointed  / hired / overseen by elected representatives.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2459 on: May 26, 2022, 07:56:59 AM »
From Andy McCarthy. Sounds vaguely similar what I started to post on Tues but didn't.
"Durham has banked his case on the premise that the FBI was a dupe rather than a willing, though cagey participant in the Russiagate farce. That turns what looks like a slam-dunk false statement into a very tough case for prosecutors."
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/fbi-leadership-russiagate-durham-job-sussman-trial.amp

The post essentially began as an apology to Nichi in that he was correct in saying that the lie was not material, and went along the lines of ....
Joffe and Sussman could have given a couple of 1st graders $1 and some Pokemon cards to go to the FBI and the media. The FBI just needed the story to be planted.
Time was running short before the election tho. An October surprise was needed. Sussman's badge allowed him the opportunity to walk thru the front door and waltz around the halls of the FBI.
The Chicago field office was told to open a full investigation, identities of the storyline providers were not to be known and the person who allegedly wrote the white papers was not to be interviewed. The idea that 2 cyber analysts dismissed the Alfa Bank data was to be ignored.
The ends were to justify the means.
The wheels were in motion.
The lie was not material.
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