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WTF is wrong with the left?

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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2085 on: March 08, 2022, 11:26:00 PM »
As I am sure you are aware, free market economies or free competition are contrasted with command economies or central planning. Most people conflate free markets with private ownership and central planning with government ownership.

However, when a handful of huge corporations control supply and manipulate demand there is no actual free market competition, just a mirage thereof. We have de facto  central planning  by private bureaucrats acting in their own interests and that of their stockholders.

I suggest you do a deep dive on Larry Fink
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2086 on: March 08, 2022, 11:34:08 PM »
As for the rest, wasn't there a study, cited by Alum, that showed unemployment was no different in states with and without the COVID unemployment bump? I always wondered if people working those restaurant/retail jobs didn't want to go back because the money isn't that great plus they had to deal with/police the QAnon97s of the world who didn't want to wear masks, etc.

The Child Tax Credit has been alleged to lift some kids out of poverty. Not sure how they calculated that (or why I was getting it). But, was it really that much?

The inflation in building supplies, for example, I doubt is caused by people who were on unemployment or depending on the Tax Child Credit. But, I'll see what evidence you have if that is your argument.

I do know that my personal balance sheet is a hell of a lot better due to not going out as much the past 2 years.

Nearly a trillion in cash payments was sent out directly to lower and middle class families. More than a trillion was sent out to businesses across the various programs. Over a trillion went to local governments, schools, home
owner and renter relief, airlines, health care.

Did everyone just sit on all those trillions, or did some of get spent? If it got spent, what was it spent on? Goods and services and supplies in an economy where a large chunk of small businesses that provide goods and services and supplies temporarily or permanently closed.

Demand generation + supply suppression = inflation.

Supply chain issues due specifically to COVID aside, you can’t just pump that much cash into an economy and not have consequences. And it’s not like we are the only ones that did it.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2087 on: March 08, 2022, 11:45:24 PM »
Well I'm sure that you have also noticed that "the good guys" have always won wars

We beat the the Brits twice (now the good guys)

We beat the Indians (now the good guys)

We beat the Spanish (meh)

We beat the Germans, Italians, Austria, (all good guys now!)

We held back North Korea (still bad!)

We beat North Viet Nam (nm let’s forget about that, and our veterans)

We beat Iraq x 2 (now the good guys! Fuck Iran! And our veterans!)

We beat Afghanistan (nm Fuck Russia! And China! And our veterans! And those pussies for falling off the plane. If you really cared about freedom and exiting Afghanistan you would have held on tighter)
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2088 on: March 09, 2022, 12:23:07 AM »
The US drops bombs and mobilizes troops all over the globe against countries and people who pose no existential threat to us and have not attacked us or even threatened to attack us, which is usually the only really acceptable basis to do so under the UN charter, international law, or even what was established during Nuremberg as a “War of Aggression.”

But there’s always some convenient excuse. Excuses that sound a lot like Russia’s for invading Ukraine. In some cases they’re bullshit money grabs to control resources and political favor. Perhaps to further the military-industrial complex or just to justify it’s existence.

We topple governments and foster coups and, perhaps inadvertently, create more deaths and instability and humanitarian crises.

NATO has unrepentantly encroached on Russia over the past 25 years (against our word) and then positioned weapons in those nations that posed direct risk to Russia and its people. At least Obama cancelled the missile defense system in Poland when Russia got in a tizzy.

The west has become increasingly involved in Ukraine in the past decade (considered by many Russians and Ukrainians as a natural extension of Russia, if not a traditional territory). The US was involved in a bloody coup in 2014 that led to the ouster of a democratically elected government that was replaced by a much more anti-Russian one.

Obviously Russia felt threatened and moved to retain influence in the region. We’d already been moving east and loading those areas with weaponry, and now we were meddling with Ukraine. An eight year shit show has ensued, with the people of Ukraine being the victims.

None of this is to say what Putin is doing is in any way acceptable. I’m just saying when the US does it, it’s always that we are moral and just and helping the good guys out when in fact we have lost a lot of credibility around the world over the last 20 years. And NATO’s continued aggressiveness in Eastern Europe has without question been a major contributor to what’s happening right now.

I doubt you or anyone else here would be content to stand by if Russia had formed alliances with and amassed weaponry in Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean. And then started fucking with the government of a territory that’s adjacent to us, important to us, and has shared culture.

🤷🏻‍♂️

No one was going to invade Russia or overthrow it. GMAFB. If the Soviets weren't assholes, their former satellites would not be begging to get into NATO. How many countries have asked out of NATO? Plenty do not appear to want to voluntarily be part of the Warsaw Pact again though. He thought Trump had decimated NATO and it turns out that this has already backfired on Putin.

If you recall, before the US became the World's Policeman, there were 2 world wars. It has been messy, but there have been no world wars, formal colonialism ended (yay, United Fruit Company!), we beat back the Soviets who had enslaved how many millions for 50 years, and world living standards improved by us taking a few for the team by allowing ourselves to be fucked in international trade - a popular Trump and Perot talking point. The world has been a far safer place, for far more people, even with our bombing some shit ass country every few years. Even the Vietnamese don't hate us at this point.

People bitch about immigration south of the border, but we have allowed Central and South America to go to shit. Soviet Venezuela looks really great now, doesn't it?

Basically, you are one of those peace and prosperity for me, but fuck everyone else. You let the fucking Soviets and Chinese run things, with the help of Murph and his Big Tech whores, and see how long you/we remain prosperous. Just look at the mortgages the Chinese are now holding throughout Africa (and now, apparently in Russia). That is the existential threat. And we don't have the stomach for this since we half-assed Iraq (at least the goddamn Iraqis can now vote for whichever shithead they want running their shit country instead of Saddam) and Afghanistan (by not chasing the Taliban into Pakistan and wiping their asses out when we had the chance). And now, after 50 years and untold millions in money and lives lost tearing down the Iron Curtain and the Berlin Wall you sit in your nice home and say we should look at it from Putin's view and allow it all to be taken back by the Soviets?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2089 on: March 09, 2022, 12:30:13 AM »
Nearly a trillion in cash payments was sent out directly to lower and middle class families. More than a trillion was sent out to businesses across the various programs. Over a trillion went to local governments, schools, home
owner and renter relief, airlines, health care.

Did everyone just sit on all those trillions, or did some of get spent? If it got spent, what was it spent on? Goods and services and supplies in an economy where a large chunk of small businesses that provide goods and services and supplies temporarily or permanently closed.

Demand generation + supply suppression = inflation.

Supply chain issues due specifically to COVID aside, you can’t just pump that much cash into an economy and not have consequences. And it’s not like we are the only ones that did it.

I understand the sentiment. I also understand that no one wanted a possible repeat of the Great Depression as business were closing down. I don't understand how inflation in lumber and building prices can be tied to waitresses getting unemployment plus a COVID kicker. Especially when we have seen hedge funds whatever apparently buying up single family homes etc. and jump into Vrbo and all those other similar rental programs.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2090 on: March 09, 2022, 12:31:45 AM »
We beat the the Brits twice (now the good guys)

We beat the Indians (now the good guys)

We beat the Spanish (meh)

We beat the Germans, Italians, Austria, (all good guys now!)

We held back North Korea (still bad!)

We beat North Viet Nam (nm let’s forget about that, and our veterans)

We beat Iraq x 2 (now the good guys! Fuck Iran! And our veterans!)

We beat Afghanistan (nm Fuck Russia! And China! And our veterans! And those pussies for falling off the plane. If you really cared about freedom and exiting Afghanistan you would have held on tighter)

You forgot Japan.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2091 on: March 09, 2022, 12:37:59 AM »
I have to say this is far more interesting than the B1G Awards thread.
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fucking

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2092 on: March 09, 2022, 01:08:15 AM »
True dat.

I'm glad that Fart's a boozer, and had enough tonight to let loose.

I'm gladder to know that he's getting paid by the same people who bought Larry King and Dennis Miller.

Fart's disinformation website was always awful. But worse, it was perplexing. Why the fuck is it here? I get it now. I want to know more.

I have a website too! I could easily publish mitigating theories about US bad/Putin hero. Should I write to Paul Manafort and/or Jesse Benton?

Fart, can a guy profit from these shenanigans without completely selling out his country/human progress?

Also, is there a website where I could copy/paste the talking points favoring Russian aggression and demonizing US hegemony?

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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2093 on: March 09, 2022, 08:14:17 AM »
No one was going to invade Russia or overthrow it. GMAFB. If the Soviets weren't assholes, their former satellites would not be begging to get into NATO. How many countries have asked out of NATO? Plenty do not appear to want to voluntarily be part of the Warsaw Pact again though. He thought Trump had decimated NATO and it turns out that this has already backfired on Putin.

If you recall, before the US became the World's Policeman, there were 2 world wars. It has been messy, but there have been no world wars, formal colonialism ended (yay, United Fruit Company!), we beat back the Soviets who had enslaved how many millions for 50 years, and world living standards improved by us taking a few for the team by allowing ourselves to be fucked in international trade - a popular Trump and Perot talking point. The world has been a far safer place, for far more people, even with our bombing some shit ass country every few years. Even the Vietnamese don't hate us at this point.

People bitch about immigration south of the border, but we have allowed Central and South America to go to shit. Soviet Venezuela looks really great now, doesn't it?

Basically, you are one of those peace and prosperity for me, but fuck everyone else. You let the fucking Soviets and Chinese run things, with the help of Murph and his Big Tech whores, and see how long you/we remain prosperous. Just look at the mortgages the Chinese are now holding throughout Africa (and now, apparently in Russia). That is the existential threat. And we don't have the stomach for this since we half-assed Iraq (at least the goddamn Iraqis can now vote for whichever shithead they want running their shit country instead of Saddam) and Afghanistan (by not chasing the Taliban into Pakistan and wiping their asses out when we had the chance). And now, after 50 years and untold millions in money and lives lost tearing down the Iron Curtain and the Berlin Wall you sit in your nice home and say we should look at it from Putin's view and allow it all to be taken back by the Soviets?

Nah I’m saying we could have handled things better. We could have served the interests of the West without coming right up to Russian borders with alliances that dictate NATO will defend them in conflict, and then arming them to the teeth.

I know you feel differently, but I’ve not seen much other than some supposition that indicates Russia actually has designs on reuniting the Warsaw Pact nations under their rule. That would be actual WWIII. This is just about Ukraine from what I can tell.

And I’ve been saying here all along that we should probably quit antagonizing Russia and strengthen our resolve with China. It’s not the 1980s anymore. If Putin goes into NATO territory it’s gonna start a hot war that he cannot win. And his economy can’t fuck with us too much.

China on the other hand…
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2094 on: March 09, 2022, 08:35:35 AM »
I understand the sentiment. I also understand that no one wanted a possible repeat of the Great Depression as business were closing down. I don't understand how inflation in lumber and building prices can be tied to waitresses getting unemployment plus a COVID kicker. Especially when we have seen hedge funds whatever apparently buying up single family homes etc. and jump into Vrbo and all those other similar rental programs.

Inflation is present in almost every aspect of the economy, not just lumber and building. I have no complaints with helping out people who had no work or income during the pandemic.

Plenty of families who didn’t experience financial loss or hardship from the pandemic received three big stimulus payments. The third one alone for a family of 5 was $7000 for those making <160k filing jointly. I’d imagine more than a few of those dollars got invested into housing.

The hedge funds and all that are an issue. Historically low interest rates and relaxed mortgage qualifications and supply chain issues all have to do with it as well.

I live in an area where a lot of homes are being built. When everything spiked last year a lot of projects went on hold if they didn’t already have the materials bought ahead of time. If there wasn’t a basement they’d put the foundations in and just let them sit until prices came back down, which created a big backlog on labor and material supply.

There’s a huge new development to the north of me where they are putting in some pretty big builder grade family homes. They did all the earth work and foundations then nothing happened for months. All of a sudden every time I drive by there are several new houses up.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2095 on: March 09, 2022, 08:48:07 AM »
You forgot Japan.

I thought about them while I was typing but just didn’t remember to put them in I guess. They’re good guys now, too.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2096 on: March 09, 2022, 09:31:46 AM »
True dat.

I'm glad that Fart's a boozer, and had enough tonight to let loose.

I'm gladder to know that he's getting paid by the same people who bought Larry King and Dennis Miller.

Fart's disinformation website was always awful. But worse, it was perplexing. Why the fuck is it here? I get it now. I want to know more.

I have a website too! I could easily publish mitigating theories about US bad/Putin hero. Should I write to Paul Manafort and/or Jesse Benton?

Fart, can a guy profit from these shenanigans without completely selling out his country/human progress?

Also, is there a website where I could copy/paste the talking points favoring Russian aggression and demonizing US hegemony?

🤣
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2097 on: March 09, 2022, 09:37:36 AM »


Demand generation + supply suppression = inflation.

Supply chain issues due specifically to COVID aside, you can’t just pump that much cash into an economy and not have consequences. And it’s not like we are the only ones that did it.

What supply suppression?

Under normal circumstances increased demand leads to supply side growth..
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2098 on: March 09, 2022, 09:44:52 AM »

There’s literally zero whataboutism there. It’s about being objective to all situations and not looking at everything through red white and blue glasses. Which is also exactly what you’re suggesting.


Of course, pointing to past U.S. acts of aggression is "looking at everything through red, white and blue glasses."   Very "objective" analysis on your part.     
« Last Edit: March 09, 2022, 09:49:47 AM by alum74 »

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2099 on: March 09, 2022, 10:39:38 AM »
I suggest you do a deep dive on Larry Fink

Is he one of the private sector central planners that rig the markets?
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