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wtf is wrong with the right?

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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3285 on: June 06, 2023, 03:38:19 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:24:19 PM
It's ALREADY illegal for a guy to go into a women's room (or a men's room, really) and be a "peeper".  And the laws conservatives want to pass about using the bathroom assigned to you at birth doesn't change that - it'll still be exactly as illegal for a man to go "peep" in the women's room regardless of whether he is cis or trans.

It WILL, however, FORCE lots of women to use the men's room (and vice versa) and just hope they don't get some moron mad about it.  It's actively endangering lives.

It certainly going to depend on how the person looks. The photo example you provided is a good one. Certainly looks like a man to me. I agree it is stupid, but I understand how a dude out with his daughter does not want some obvious dude wearing a wig and a dress as an "excuse" to go into the woman's washroom.

Actually, I do not know how "public" is defined in these bills. Maybe they cover a washroom on a campground that is generally made available to the public?
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3286 on: June 06, 2023, 03:43:18 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:34:27 PM
No idea, but you're trying to deflect from the discussion.  Don't.

JudgeJudy and others like her want to force people to use the bathroom assigned to them at birth.  This is the obvious, easily foreseeable result.  It is not and never was about bathrooms, their kids safety, or any of the other projections they use.  It is and always was about bullying trans people, because people like that find trans people weird and gross.  Because a trans person is surely MORE likely to be assaulted for using the bathroom they were assigned at birth than the one that corresponds to their identity and presentation, which frankly no one would ever know about unless they were told.

If they were worried about their kids being molested there would be a loud anti-Church movement - that they are far more concerned about Drag Queen Story Hours, where there have been pretty much no incidents speaks very, very loudly if we don't plug our ears.

I am not trying to deflect. The fact is that what occurred in the story was not because of any law.

I am not going to accuse Judge Judy here of wanting to "bully" people as opposed to thinking he is trying to protect his daughter. I think you may be off base there. I am sure there are many people in the same boat. I am not saying they are correct or their concerns are warranted. I do not believe that automatically makes them bad people. Scared people, yeah. Bad? Eh.

I do not know if Judge Judy has the same concerns about Drag Queen Story Hours. If it does, then I certainly would reconsider.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3287 on: June 06, 2023, 03:45:06 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:34:27 PM
No idea, but you're trying to deflect from the discussion.  Don't.

JudgeJudy and others like her want to force people to use the bathroom assigned to them at birth.  This is the obvious, easily foreseeable result.  It is not and never was about bathrooms, their kids safety, or any of the other projections they use.  It is and always was about bullying trans people, because people like that find trans people weird and gross.  Because a trans person is surely MORE likely to be assaulted for using the bathroom they were assigned at birth than the one that corresponds to their identity and presentation, which frankly no one would ever know about unless they were told.

If they were worried about their kids being molested there would be a loud anti-Church movement - that they are far more concerned about Drag Queen Story Hours, where there have been pretty much no incidents speaks very, very loudly if we don't plug our ears.

On the flip side, are there bad actors trying to pass these laws. Of course. Are they trying to take advantage of the fears of others about "bad faith actors," of course.
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3288 on: June 06, 2023, 03:51:07 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:38:19 PM
It certainly going to depend on how the person looks. The photo example you provided is a good one. Certainly looks like a man to me. I agree it is stupid, but I understand how a dude out with his daughter does not want some obvious dude wearing a wig and a dress as an "excuse" to go into the woman's washroom.

Actually, I do not know how "public" is defined in these bills. Maybe they cover a washroom on a campground that is generally made available to the public?

If the person in the wig and the dress assaults someone, it's already a crime whether they're trans or cis, gay or straight, etc.  Why are we so worried about what genitalia they have?

If they don't and instead they just use the restroom and leave, what's the issue here?

You said earlier, " It is easy to say to wait for someone to be attacked in a bathroom to call the cops."

Is there any other way this has typically happened?  Are we talking about Minority Report shit right now?  How else would you report a crime other than to report it when it happened?  This is exactly why they want someone using the bathroom corresponding to their identity to be a crime - it's criminalizing someone's existence, and they think that someone is gross and weird.

I'm curious which you think is more likely:  a trans woman assaulting a child in the women's room, or a trans woman being assaulted by cis men in the men's room?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 04:03:44 PM by spark mandrill »
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3289 on: June 06, 2023, 04:04:04 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:51:07 PM
If the person in the wig and the dress assaults someone, it's already a crime whether they're trans or cis, gay or straight, etc.  Why are we so worried about what genitalia they have?

If they don't and instead they just use the restroom and leave, what's the issue here?

You said earlier, " It is easy to say to wait for someone to be attacked in a bathroom to call the cops."

Is there any other way this has typically happened?  Are we talking about Minority Report shit right now?  How else would you report a crime other than to report it when it happened?  This is exactly why they want someone using the bathroom corresponding to their identity to be a crime - it's criminalizing someone's existence, and they think that someone is gross and weird.

Assault is one thing. Being a "peeper" is another. Being creepy is another. The argument would not only be about "assaults" but how you prevent the latter two. Again, I think those concerns are overblown. Does not mean they do not exist.



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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3290 on: June 06, 2023, 04:06:07 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 03:51:07 PM
If the person in the wig and the dress assaults someone, it's already a crime whether they're trans or cis, gay or straight, etc.  Why are we so worried about what genitalia they have?

If they don't and instead they just use the restroom and leave, what's the issue here?

You said earlier, " It is easy to say to wait for someone to be attacked in a bathroom to call the cops."

Is there any other way this has typically happened?  Are we talking about Minority Report shit right now?  How else would you report a crime other than to report it when it happened?  This is exactly why they want someone using the bathroom corresponding to their identity to be a crime - it's criminalizing someone's existence, and they think that someone is gross and weird.

I'm curious which you think is more likely:  a trans woman assaulting a child in the women's room, or a trans woman being assaulted by cis men in the men's room?

Instead of assaults, that is the easy one, what about a "peeper" dressing in drag to have the excuse to go in the woman's restroom. What do you do there?

Chump Edit: How do you assuage Judge Judy's fears in that scenario
?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 04:07:43 PM by ThePAMan »
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3291 on: June 06, 2023, 04:08:06 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 04:06:07 PM
Instead of assaults, that is the easy one, what about a "peeper" dressing in drag to have the excuse to go in the woman's restroom. What do you do there?

Chump Edit: How do you assuage Judge Judy's fears in that scenario
?

Are they committing a crime?

In most states it's illegal to spy on someone in the restroom whether you're trans or not.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3292 on: June 06, 2023, 04:09:14 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 04:08:06 PM
Are they committing a crime?

They are Peeping Tom's in the bathroom trying to watch Judge Judy's child while in the stall. Yes.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3293 on: June 06, 2023, 04:10:28 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 04:08:06 PM
In most states it's illegal to spy on someone in the restroom whether you're trans or not.

True. How many people are prosecuted? Now you have Dave, a bad actor, dressed in drag, going into the woman's bathroom. Makes it much more difficult to prosecute him, no?
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3294 on: June 06, 2023, 04:10:44 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 04:09:14 PM
They are Peeping Tom's in the bathroom trying to watch Judge Judy's child while in the stall. Yes.

Then why the fuck would I care what genitalia they have?  Why would we need to write new laws specifically aimed at trans people?

It's already a crime regardless of whether the person is trans or not.
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3295 on: June 06, 2023, 04:11:26 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 04:10:28 PM
True. How many people are prosecuted? Now you have Dave, a bad actor, dressed in drag, going into the woman's bathroom. Makes it much more difficult to prosecute him, no?

No more difficult than it'd be to prosecute the same person sans wig peeping in a bathroom.

If they're peeping / spying on someone in the bathroom, it's a crime already regardless of gender.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3296 on: June 06, 2023, 04:13:11 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 04:10:44 PM
Then why the fuck would I care what genitalia they have?  Why would we need to write new laws specifically aimed at trans people?

It's already a crime regardless of whether the person is trans or not.

If Sue does it, she is not being prosecuted. Way too tough to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Bob does it, still really tough, but he is not "supposed" to be in there anyway.

Bob dressed in drag?
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3297 on: June 06, 2023, 04:14:06 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 04:13:11 PM
If Sue does it, she is not being prosecuted. Way too tough to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Bob does it, still really tough, but he is not "supposed" to be in there anyway.

Bob dressed in drag?

Huh?

Literally anyone, any gender, caught spying on someone else in a bathroom is likely getting prosecuted.

I'm a cis man but if I'm in a bathroom peeping in the stalls it's a crime regardless of my genitalia.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3298 on: June 06, 2023, 04:14:31 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 04:11:26 PM
No more difficult than it'd be to prosecute the same person sans wig peeping in a bathroom.

If they're peeping / spying on someone in the bathroom, it's a crime already regardless of gender.

I think you are being a little naive here.
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murphstahoe

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3299 on: June 06, 2023, 04:15:51 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 03:01:27 PM
I do not care about the who uses what bathroom stuff myself, but I certainly can understand how it could be abused by people who are not acting in good faith. It is easy to say to wait for someone to be attacked in a bathroom to call the cops. A "man" in the woman's bathroom would raise some red flags for anyone in the bathroom.

The fact you can see why someone would go to the opposite gender bathroom not acting in good faith says a lot about you. I can't envision this scenario but *I* am not a pervert, maybe it takes one to know one.
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