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wtf is wrong with the right?

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Custard

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1215 on: August 09, 2021, 12:33:39 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on August 09, 2021, 11:52:56 AM
Of course it hurts morale. They worry it might mean we pay them less.

Police funding is one of the weirdest parts of American governance, because we have a substantial population that hears "more money for policing" and think "that's good", without any context. Like any other function of Government, or the economy writ large, there is an appropriate amount of money to put towards any effort. The police have done a good job of obscuring that concept with regards to their budget, we don't really know how much we put into policing, how much we pay the police (all in - benefits, pensions, etc...), how much we spend on equipment, police stations, jails. Is it really good use of money to have police stations that are top notch facilities in terms of basic fixtures, HVAC systems, etc.. but the physical plants of elementary schools are completely broken?

You’re not wrong but FFS nearly any corporation (ask CT) or governmental agency or political party engages in obfuscation to protect their own interests. And that definitely includes schools and the teachers union.
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1216 on: August 09, 2021, 01:00:01 PM »
Speaking of schools, critical race theory is another major Fox News theme. They are not quite saying Defund the Schools, but they are pushing school choice.

The concept is the taxpayers' money should follow the student, not go to failing schools. Apparently the right wing has already sold the idea that it is taxpayers' money, not the government's?
 
I wonder if the rhetoric is hurting teacher morale?
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Custard

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1217 on: August 09, 2021, 03:00:57 PM »
Lots of mental gymnastics taking place there
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ridingthegrange

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1218 on: August 09, 2021, 04:07:16 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on August 08, 2021, 05:29:59 PM
“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality. That’s it. It’s that simple. Defund does not mean abolish policing. And, even some who say abolish, do not necessarily mean to do away with law enforcement altogether.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/

Regardless of what's meant by it, it's a stupid slogan.  As usual, the libs lose the soundbite wars.  Does policing need reforming?  Hell yes!  The war on crime is no more successful than the war on drugs or the war on terror.  They're all abject failures arguably because they generally treated symptoms not underlying causes.  We're armed to the teeth and the prison business is booming but many folks still don't feel safe and the violence persists.  Don't think our way of policing is not in need of critical reform?  Eugene OR ( CAHOOTS Program), Denver CO (Star Program), and Milwaukee (thinking about it) are all programs that send mental health folks instead of cops in response to some 911 calls.  In Denver, I know, the local PD was somewhat skeptical when this started up.  No longer is that the case.  The mental health folks are taking many of the calls that the rank/file cops dreaded responding to and had no training for.  These type initiatives are not transformative by themselves but seem to be heading in the right direction.   Anyone else think that mental health professionals need to be paid at least as much as accountants and stock brokers?
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1219 on: August 09, 2021, 05:06:56 PM »
Quote from: fucking on August 08, 2021, 02:10:22 PM
I don't know why you're spending any calories in this rural corner of Quixotism.

The phrase is Defund The Police. The placards say Defund The Police.

End of story.

It literally doesn't matter how you choose to define it, and that's the point of this conversation.

The phrase is literally over the top so that it will result in the normalization of less police spending. Most people don’t believe in ENTIRELY defunding the police. It’s the same reason Bernie insists on not ditching the word socialist when he’s still very much a capitalist. “Democratic socialism” then becomes more acceptable rather than “socialist.” It normalizes the socialism aspect. 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 05:11:02 PM by Tempo34 »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1220 on: August 09, 2021, 05:10:26 PM »
Lessening appropriations for police seems rather agreeable than “defunding police entirely.” Although there is definitely a subgroup who wants to literally defund the police.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1221 on: August 09, 2021, 05:13:25 PM »
Yes “the libs” often lose the sound bite wars. But the Fox News segment of the population is dying off. Ask people under 30 about their feelings on “socialism” and I guarantee you it’s far far far kinder than those over 60. Long game…
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1222 on: August 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM »
Phrases like “Defund the police” are chosen because they are strong, jarring, and attention grabbing. Who’s going to give the “”knock knock: can we please reduce the policing footprint in America and reallocate some of those resources?” movement the time of day?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 05:20:20 PM by Tempo34 »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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fucking

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1223 on: August 09, 2021, 05:55:22 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on August 09, 2021, 05:13:25 PM
Yes “the libs” often lose the sound bite wars. But the Fox News segment of the population is dying off. Ask people under 30 about their feelings on “socialism” and I guarantee you it’s far far far kinder than those over 60. Long game…
Because, as we know, the Boomers were all Nixon-loving hawks.

It's true that people without assets believe in sharing and redistributing assets.
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1224 on: August 09, 2021, 06:01:26 PM »
Quote from: fucking on August 09, 2021, 05:55:22 PM
Because, as we know, the Boomers were all Nixon-loving hawks.

It's true that people without assets believe in sharing and redistributing assets.

America was a lot whiter and for lack of a better way to put it “woke” in 1970.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 07:11:38 PM by Tempo34 »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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fucking

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1225 on: August 09, 2021, 06:12:00 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on August 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
Phrases like “Defund the police” are chosen because they are strong
I can just see the dirty, dreadlocked hippies sitting around the boardroom table, debating which terms will really bother established suburban women.
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1226 on: August 09, 2021, 07:11:04 PM »
Quote from: fucking on August 09, 2021, 06:12:00 PM
I can just see the dirty, dreadlocked hippies sitting around the boardroom table, debating which terms will really bother established suburban women.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/14/business/corporate-america-woke-politics/index.html
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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murphstahoe

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1227 on: August 09, 2021, 07:40:03 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on August 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
Phrases like “Defund the police” are chosen because they are strong, jarring, and attention grabbing. Who’s going to give the “”knock knock: can we please reduce the policing footprint in America and reallocate some of those resources?” movement the time of day?

The liberal dilemma. Each group sloganizes. MAGA, BLM, etc...

The "left" (and the "left" is not some sort of singular person or cabal) has chosen or ended up with some slogans that can best be characterized as trying to move the overton window by being intentionally hyperbolic or exclusive, compared to MAGA, which is really sort of non-controversial, I mean, do you not want America to be great? Of course you do. And by doing so, the MAGA people have owned what "great" is supposed to mean.

So the question is, does the hit you over the head with a hammer slogan do better than something else? What would be a better one - remember it has to be catchy and succinct. Maybe long term, the window moving one is better. But it causes some short term angst.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1228 on: August 10, 2021, 10:41:59 AM »
Would be ironic if Dominion put all these places out of business liike Gawker, Deadspin, etc. got put out of business.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/dominion-sues-newsmax-one-america-news-network-others-over-election-claims-11628599768
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1229 on: August 10, 2021, 10:52:30 AM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on August 09, 2021, 07:40:03 PM
The liberal dilemma. Each group sloganizes. MAGA, BLM, etc...

The "left" (and the "left" is not some sort of singular person or cabal) has chosen or ended up with some slogans that can best be characterized as trying to move the overton window by being intentionally hyperbolic or exclusive, compared to MAGA, which is really sort of non-controversial, I mean, do you not want America to be great? Of course you do. And by doing so, the MAGA people have owned what "great" is supposed to mean.

So the question is, does the hit you over the head with a hammer slogan do better than something else? What would be a better one - remember it has to be catchy and succinct. Maybe long term, the window moving one is better. But it causes some short term angst.

Yeppers
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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