WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

alum74

2804
+1484/-124

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #405 on: April 29, 2020, 01:59:51 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on April 29, 2020, 01:44:55 PM

Quote from: alum74 on April 29, 2020, 12:26:02 PM
It really all depends on what you mean by "deep state."

If it means there's a professional civil service that ensures continuity of ideology and policy across administrations to keep our nation running, and sometimes pushes back when political leaders or top-level hires try to get out of line, there is obviously a deep state.

It's also reasonable to assume that politicians, top political appointees and interest groups (businesses, unions, agriculture, defense, etc.) cooperate to make day-to-day government operations predictable and favorable to their concerns, because why wouldn't they use that power? That’s human nature.

But people take this idea and then build whole "deep state" conspiracy theories, channeling fear/anger, that demonize just about everyone in the world. You can see that paranoia/vivid imaginations in websites like Infowars on the right and Moon of Alabama on the left.

The Deep State was always trying to overthrow the President and kill Jack Bauer on "24."

I’m so old I remember back in the 70s the Trilateral Commission was running the world on behalf of globalist kingpin David Rockefeller and the wealthy.

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murphstahoe

8697
+2083/-143

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #406 on: April 29, 2020, 02:35:52 PM »

Quote from: Custard on April 29, 2020, 01:45:59 PM

I don’t consume such information which is why I don’t have any idea about what Murph is talking about. I do believe that politicians and presidents are products/puppets for big money, special interest groups, the military-industrial complex, etc.

That's not a secret. The whole Alex Jones/QAnon Deep State theory basically implies that there is a *secret* cabal that is controlling things behind the curtain. So somehow there is a room of people being paid by George Soros to countervene the President. If that were true, they aren't very competent.

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Miniditka

419
+259/-11

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #407 on: April 29, 2020, 02:44:50 PM »

Quote from: ILLove1997 on April 28, 2020, 10:25:26 AM

Quote from: ThePAMan on April 25, 2020, 06:35:32 AM
Quote from: Custard on April 24, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 24, 2020, 04:05:10 AM
Quote from: Custard on April 23, 2020, 11:22:08 PM
Quote from: Miniditka on April 23, 2020, 08:55:31 PM
Quote from: Custard on April 23, 2020, 07:29:24 PM
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.

Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.

But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.

At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.

I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.

I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.

Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.

If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?

These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.

It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.

It was supposed to be about slowing the spread so the hospitals do not become overwhelmed so that people that otherwise could be saved, like someone in a car crash, etc., could be saved because the resources were not all being used on the virus.

The death rate is still 2 to 3 x the norm in NY from this. That takes into account all deaths, not just the virus.

At some point things will open up again. It will be shortly and then we will have another wave. The Chinese are seeing it right now.

Yes, we should do what we can to.lessen our dependence on Chinese manufacturing. The problem is that corporate America and the populace love cheap stuff made by Chinese slaves and kids.

I mean flattening the curve was certainly the story. Ventilators and beds and emergency pop up hospitals and OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. But really it’s the perfect storm for a bunch of BS. So even if the disease isn’t as bad as we thought and all these things never came to fruition it’s simply because THE SHUTDOWN WORKED RIGHT? Kudos to those brilliant people in charge for doing the difficult things necessary to save lives! We flattened the curve!

But what if it just really wasn’t that bad and wouldn’t have been that bad even if we’d have carried on as normal? One could point to northern Italy as an example but there are a lot of factors in play there that made it the prime location for a very bad outbreak. We’ll never know and that’s *probably* a good thing but I’d love to see some stats on what percentage of hospital and healthcare resources have even been allocated to COVID-19 patients.

Except we do know. We have seen what has happened in NY, Sweden, etc. We know in places that have been hit hard by this the number of deaths are 2 to 3, if not more, times the average and, in some places, hospitals are overrun and forced to ration resources. I don't get what you don't get in this regard. It is all about giving the medical profession time to figure out the best way to deal with this to avoid greater carnage when we do open things back up. With the time being spent and the precautions being put into place hopefully there will not be a second wave as bad as expected in the fall.

bullshit

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

sweden is basically right on par with every other western country and they didn't destroy their economy in the process

Except it’s really far from being over. Everyone who doubted the danger of this virus is going to look really fucking stupid in a few more months.

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murphstahoe

8697
+2083/-143

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #408 on: April 29, 2020, 03:00:01 PM »

Quote from: Miniditka on April 29, 2020, 02:44:50 PM

Except it’s really far from being over. Everyone who doubted the danger of this virus is going to look really fucking stupid in a few more months.

Everyone is calming down because the cases *per day* isn't rising, it's "plateaued" on a per day basis. That doesn't mean that the number of cases has stopped rising, just not accellerating.

I tried to explain this to someone - I finally tried this analogy - "If your car goes from zero to sixty, you don't jump out of the car at sixty just because it's not going to seventy. They didn't get it.

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Custard

12598
+239/-3068

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #409 on: April 29, 2020, 07:23:36 PM »

Does anyone here directly know anyone who has been infected and/or died?

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fucking

3174
+223/-1146
Who Doesn't?

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #410 on: April 29, 2020, 08:19:47 PM »

Yes.

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illinicalvin

1493
+517/-43

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #411 on: April 29, 2020, 08:46:20 PM »

Quote from: Custard on April 29, 2020, 07:23:36 PM

Does anyone here directly know anyone who has been infected and/or died?

The former.

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illinicalvin

1493
+517/-43

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #412 on: April 29, 2020, 09:01:47 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on April 28, 2020, 12:10:12 AM

Quote from: illinicalvin on April 27, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
his asinine anti-Chinese narrative

While I agree that he ignored all the warnings provided by his own administration and his rhetoric is usually unseemly, how is the narrative against the fucking commie assholes running China wrong? Fuck those assholes. Those guys are scum, lied about the virus, steal our IP, use slave labor (and our corporate overlords here enable them). Hopefully Xi chokes on his own vomit and manufacturers leave that third world shithole in droves and the SARS spreading idiots who.eat bats can just kill each other.
[/quote]
Yes, the leaders are scum. They lied. They lie about everything and we knew they were lying. They're still lying about the death count and the infection count. The IP thing is fixable on our end but there's too many people here making money off of it; ditto the labor, although that's also a problem in like 25 other countries. Fix China and suddenly the ranks of the shady middle class swell in Myanmar or Lesotho or Moldova.

The problem is that Trump bought into this myopic strain of thought dating back 20 years now that China is our one singular socioeconomic enemy (this is a small part of why Russia thinks him a useful fool) and he's been exploiting the more racist parts of that belief his entire Presidency, which means when coronavirus came along he bundled it with the China problem instead of a global problem that ceased being a Chinese problem some time in mid-January.

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Custard

12598
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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #413 on: April 29, 2020, 11:12:17 PM »

Trump is just a figurehead. What’s the solution?

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AOTC on basically everything measurable

“Custard, you were RIGHT!” -Tempo

Miniditka

419
+259/-11

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #414 on: April 30, 2020, 12:03:15 AM »

Quote from: Custard on April 29, 2020, 07:23:36 PM

Does anyone here directly know anyone who has been infected and/or died?

I think I know one person who was infected.

I definitely know someone who had to die alone in the hospital because his family wasn’t allowed in due to Coronavirus.

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fucking

3174
+223/-1146
Who Doesn't?

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #415 on: April 30, 2020, 12:44:30 AM »

Quote from: Custard on April 29, 2020, 11:12:17 PM

Trump is just a figurehead. What’s the solution?

We're pretty close to a place where we could convince Trump voters that they got their way.

If we could take over Faux News and start broadcasting a more favorable kind of disinformation (abortion has been outlawed, the negroes are forbidden from voting or receiving government aid, etc.) it would help move things along.

Thing is, they really like being outraged. So we'd need to invent/repeatedly rail against a new specter. The caravans meme won't last forever.

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No one in Mn

13063
+179/-2701

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #416 on: April 30, 2020, 06:45:36 AM »

Quote from: murphstahoe on April 29, 2020, 02:35:52 PM

Quote from: Custard on April 29, 2020, 01:45:59 PM
I don’t consume such information which is why I don’t have any idea about what Murph is talking about. I do believe that politicians and presidents are products/puppets for big money, special interest groups, the military-industrial complex, etc.

That's not a secret. The whole Alex Jones/QAnon Deep State theory basically implies that there is a *secret* cabal that is controlling things behind the curtain. So somehow there is a room of people being paid by George Soros to countervene the President. If that were true, they aren't very competent.

Papadopoulos called them imbeciles.

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Still hiding behind innuendo and practicing the art of omission.

Custard

12598
+239/-3068

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #417 on: April 30, 2020, 11:48:43 AM »

Quote from: fucking on April 30, 2020, 12:44:30 AM

Quote from: Custard on April 29, 2020, 11:12:17 PM
Trump is just a figurehead. What’s the solution?

We're pretty close to a place where we could convince Trump voters that they got their way.

If we could take over Faux News and start broadcasting a more favorable kind of disinformation (abortion has been outlawed, the negroes are forbidden from voting or receiving government aid, etc.) it would help move things along.

Thing is, they really like being outraged. So we'd need to invent/repeatedly rail against a new specter. The caravans meme won't last forever.

Just need a brown person to blow up an American landmark. Or go for the double whammy and have them blow up some confederate landmarks

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Poster Boy for White Male Indifference

AOTC on basically everything measurable

“Custard, you were RIGHT!” -Tempo

murphstahoe

8697
+2083/-143

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #418 on: April 30, 2020, 01:36:20 PM »

Quote from: Custard on April 29, 2020, 07:23:36 PM

Does anyone here directly know anyone who has been infected and/or died?

Not directly, but the virus has now landed via a positive test in my wife's aunt's nursing home. The patient fell, had to go to hospital for 2 weeks to deal with the orthopedic issues of the fall, and returned. Then tested positive.

The best man in my wedding, they pulled his mom from an assisted living center in Park Ridge on March 1. Six residents of that facility have died from COVID

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murphstahoe

8697
+2083/-143

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #419 on: April 30, 2020, 02:05:59 PM »

Quote from: illinicalvin on April 29, 2020, 09:01:47 PM

[The IP thing is fixable on our end but there's too many people here making money off of it; d

If this is true - is it really a problem, and not a feature? Most of the IP being stolen is 2 or 3 generations old. low margin, but the availability of it to the Chinese consumer opens up a new market for higher end products.

A lot of the traditional things we thought of being "pirated" like software don't even exist in traditional form anymore, with everything going to SaaS, you don't buy software, you pay licensing fees.

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