WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

Custard

12460
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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #360 on: April 24, 2020, 03:42:28 PM »

Quote from: fucking on April 24, 2020, 01:11:25 PM

Quote from: Custard on April 23, 2020, 11:22:08 PM

It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil.

I like this four-dimensional chess where Big Gubmint is forcing us to cook at home rather than outsourcing our meals.

It’s almost like Big Gubmint isn’t capable of things like false WMDs and Iran-Contra or Vietnam or any of the other million times the American people have had the wool pulled over their eyes.

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Custard

12460
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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #361 on: April 24, 2020, 03:43:48 PM »

Quote from: murphstahoe on April 24, 2020, 03:22:21 PM

Quote from: Custard on April 24, 2020, 09:52:47 AM
Quote from: murphstahoe on April 24, 2020, 01:43:24 AM
Quote from: Custard on April 23, 2020, 11:22:08 PM

It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.

If Trump gave one shit about lessening our economic dependency on China, he and Ivanka would not be selling products manufactured in China. Trump talks about this as a smoke screen to build an image. The use of manufacturing in China isn't some sort of government issued declaration, it is a decision made by corporations, and Trump is a corporatists, remember how his whole mantra was that he's an outsider and businessman.

He isn't designing a strategy to improve the country - Trump is only about Trump. Full stop.

Similarly - lessening our dependency on foreign oil isn't about lessening our dependency on foreign oil, it's about US based oil companies wanting to make more money by getting access to oil fields with subsidy and externalizing the environmental damage. Hey, we fucked up ANWAR but you know, we lessened our dependency on foreign oil. The proper strategy to reduce said dependency, if we were worried about our overall net result, would be to figure out how to use *LESS* oil. But Exxon doesn't profit from that, and if Exxon doesn't profit, they can't contribute money to campaigns.

Wait what? For years he’s been saying he’ll bring jobs back to the US and has been labeled a nationalist and such. If I had a dime for every time Nichi has lambasted him for his anti-globalist nationalist attitude and policies I could have retired before the stock market crashed. Everyone threw a fit over the tariffs and how that was going to wreck our economy. We’ve been in a trade war with China for some time. Everyone threw a fit over the immigration reform and the wall and the travel ban on Muslims.

In just six weeks time during this shutdown there are cottage industries popping up all over America that are filling the void left by the slowdown in global commerce and products and people moving internationally. He essentially has banned all immigration now. He’s taken all the things people were complaining about previously and now turned them around to the point where people are rooting for the same principles they used to despise. Just under a different guise.

Nice Try.

Saying that Trump is lying when he says he is trying to do thing A, is not saying that thing A is a good thing to try to do.

And saying that doesn't mean that what Trump is actually doing is good.

Who said it was good? You argue like my wife. Just because I point out some facts doesn’t mean I am enthusiastic they exist.

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ThePAMan

32272
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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #362 on: April 25, 2020, 06:35:32 AM »

Quote from: Custard on April 24, 2020, 10:23:25 AM

Quote from: ThePAMan on April 24, 2020, 04:05:10 AM
Quote from: Custard on April 23, 2020, 11:22:08 PM
Quote from: Miniditka on April 23, 2020, 08:55:31 PM
Quote from: Custard on April 23, 2020, 07:29:24 PM
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.

Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.

But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.

At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.

I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.

I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.

Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.

If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?

These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.

It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.

It was supposed to be about slowing the spread so the hospitals do not become overwhelmed so that people that otherwise could be saved, like someone in a car crash, etc., could be saved because the resources were not all being used on the virus.

The death rate is still 2 to 3 x the norm in NY from this. That takes into account all deaths, not just the virus.

At some point things will open up again. It will be shortly and then we will have another wave. The Chinese are seeing it right now.

Yes, we should do what we can to.lessen our dependence on Chinese manufacturing. The problem is that corporate America and the populace love cheap stuff made by Chinese slaves and kids.

I mean flattening the curve was certainly the story. Ventilators and beds and emergency pop up hospitals and OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. But really it’s the perfect storm for a bunch of BS. So even if the disease isn’t as bad as we thought and all these things never came to fruition it’s simply because THE SHUTDOWN WORKED RIGHT? Kudos to those brilliant people in charge for doing the difficult things necessary to save lives! We flattened the curve!

But what if it just really wasn’t that bad and wouldn’t have been that bad even if we’d have carried on as normal? One could point to northern Italy as an example but there are a lot of factors in play there that made it the prime location for a very bad outbreak. We’ll never know and that’s *probably* a good thing but I’d love to see some stats on what percentage of hospital and healthcare resources have even been allocated to COVID-19 patients.

Except we do know. We have seen what has happened in NY, Sweden, etc. We know in places that have been hit hard by this the number of deaths are 2 to 3, if not more, times the average and, in some places, hospitals are overrun and forced to ration resources. I don't get what you don't get in this regard. It is all about giving the medical profession time to figure out the best way to deal with this to avoid greater carnage when we do open things back up. With the time being spent and the precautions being put into place hopefully there will not be a second wave as bad as expected in the fall.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 06:37:34 AM by ThePAMan »

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Custard

12460
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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #363 on: April 25, 2020, 10:35:57 AM »

We don’t know what would have happened here if the lockdown hadn’t happened, only models and educated guesses. NYC isn’t exactly a great representation of the USA as a whole. It’s probably the most ideal place for a virus to spread efficiently. Like, COVID-19 probably got a virus boner when it arrived in New York.

I don’t think I’m missing anything here, just presenting a contrarian view to the usual talking points surrounding this whole mess. And I asked for some statistics showing where our medical resources are being strained by this. Just regular medical resources, not the emergency backup sources. I haven’t heard anything about ventilators lately how are we doing there?

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No one in Mn

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #364 on: April 25, 2020, 11:31:09 AM »

Quote from: Custard on April 25, 2020, 10:35:57 AM

We don’t know what would have happened here if the lockdown hadn’t happened, only models and educated guesses. NYC isn’t exactly a great representation of the USA as a whole. It’s probably the most ideal place for a virus to spread efficiently. Like, COVID-19 probably got a virus boner when it arrived in New York.

I don’t think I’m missing anything here, just presenting a contrarian view to the usual talking points surrounding this whole mess. And I asked for some statistics showing where our medical resources are being strained by this. Just regular medical resources, not the emergency backup sources. I haven’t heard anything about ventilators lately how are we doing there?

It's difficult to know what to do when the world receives a surprise package of shit from the CCP and told not to worry in that there is no evidence of human to human transmission.
We'll skip the its been incubating in Wuhan for weeks part and the no treatment, no cure, no vaccine, and no shit it can be deadly part. Good luck to the free world, joke is on you.
Hopefully we're getting thru the 1st wave and the 2nd wave, if there is one, is not as devastating.

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alum74

2743
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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #365 on: April 25, 2020, 05:42:03 PM »

Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”

More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/

Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.

Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19

In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/

Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!

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Judge Judy

11939
+120/-1815

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #366 on: April 25, 2020, 06:10:57 PM »

Quote from: alum74 on April 25, 2020, 05:42:03 PM

Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”

More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/

Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.

Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19

In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/

Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!

You’re ignorant. Trump tried to close the borders and immigration from China, yet he was called a racist by you liberals. Your girl, Nancy Pelosi was waltzing through Chinatown in NY saying there was no problem. Oh the hypocrisy.

Continue to spread your fake news.

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Custard

12460
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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #367 on: April 26, 2020, 12:24:41 PM »

I find it fascinating how people pick and choose which government information to believe.

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Miniditka

419
+259/-11

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #368 on: April 26, 2020, 03:28:46 PM »

Quote from: Custard on April 25, 2020, 10:35:57 AM

We don’t know what would have happened here if the lockdown hadn’t happened, only models and educated guesses. NYC isn’t exactly a great representation of the USA as a whole. It’s probably the most ideal place for a virus to spread efficiently. Like, COVID-19 probably got a virus boner when it arrived in New York.

I don’t think I’m missing anything here, just presenting a contrarian view to the usual talking points surrounding this whole mess. And I asked for some statistics showing where our medical resources are being strained by this. Just regular medical resources, not the emergency backup sources. I haven’t heard anything about ventilators lately how are we doing there?

We know exactly what would have happened without a lockdown. It happened in Italy. It happened in Spain. Health care was rationed because capacity was far exceeded. Older people and people with comorbidities were told not to even bother coming into the hospital because they would get no bed. Death tolls in Italy are vastly underreported (by maybe 50% or more) because only hospital deaths are counted. All of the people who died in their homes or in nursing homes are not counted. It would have been chaos.

Some goddamned idiot southern governor is going to create the same situation in his state, and we will get to see it happen. Watch.

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illiniray

9468
+636/-2108

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #369 on: April 26, 2020, 03:37:24 PM »

Quote from: Judge Judy on April 25, 2020, 06:10:57 PM

Quote from: alum74 on April 25, 2020, 05:42:03 PM
Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”

More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/

Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.

Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19

In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/

Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!

You’re ignorant. Trump tried to close the borders and immigration from China, yet he was called a racist by you liberals. Your girl, Nancy Pelosi was waltzing through Chinatown in NY saying there was no problem. Oh the hypocrisy.

Continue to spread your fake news.

bullshit. Trump was accused of xenophobia and discrimination because he extended his immigration restrictions to more African and Muslim countries. Nothing to do with the pandemic. In another context he used the term 'china virus' in a way that was likely to stir up anti-asian sentiment. Also, he restricted travel from China, did not close it.

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murphstahoe

8435
+2031/-143

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #370 on: April 26, 2020, 03:46:32 PM »

Quote from: Custard on April 25, 2020, 10:35:57 AM

We don’t know what would have happened here if the lockdown hadn’t happened, only models and educated guesses. NYC isn’t exactly a great representation of the USA as a whole. It’s probably the most ideal place for a virus to spread efficiently. Like, COVID-19 probably got a virus boner when it arrived in New York.

I don’t think I’m missing anything here, just presenting a contrarian view to the usual talking points surrounding this whole mess. And I asked for some statistics showing where our medical resources are being strained by this. Just regular medical resources, not the emergency backup sources. I haven’t heard anything about ventilators lately how are we doing there?

Grade A Concern Troll

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murphstahoe

8435
+2031/-143

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #371 on: April 26, 2020, 03:49:14 PM »

Quote from: Judge Judy on April 25, 2020, 06:10:57 PM

Quote from: alum74 on April 25, 2020, 05:42:03 PM
Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”

More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/

Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.

Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19

In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/

Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!

You’re ignorant. Trump tried to close the borders and immigration from China, yet he was called a racist by you liberals. Your girl, Nancy Pelosi was waltzing through Chinatown in NY saying there was no problem. Oh the hypocrisy.

Continue to spread your fake news.

What does closing the border down or not have to do with testing, social distancing, protective equipment, or ventilators?

Had Trump nailed that stuff, he'd be a hero and cruise to re-election.

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alum74

2743
+1463/-124

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #372 on: April 26, 2020, 04:46:38 PM »

Quote from: murphstahoe on April 26, 2020, 03:49:14 PM

Quote from: Judge Judy on April 25, 2020, 06:10:57 PM
Quote from: alum74 on April 25, 2020, 05:42:03 PM
Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”

More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/

Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.

Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19

In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/

Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!

You’re ignorant. Trump tried to close the borders and immigration from China, yet he was called a racist by you liberals. Your girl, Nancy Pelosi was waltzing through Chinatown in NY saying there was no problem. Oh the hypocrisy.

Continue to spread your fake news.

What does closing the border down or not have to do with testing, social distancing, protective equipment, or ventilators?

Had Trump nailed that stuff, he'd be a hero and cruise to re-election.

His re-election would have been a slam-dunk. But we all know that analyzing Trump through any rational basis is always tough. It seems clear that he's terrified of having any responsibility or being held accountable for any of this. Plus, testing and contact tracing is way too sciencey. Short of buying a cure or cutting a ribbon at the “Reopening of America” ceremony he has in his head, Trump does not want to manage the crisis at all. Hard work is not part of his lifestyle.

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Judge Judy

11939
+120/-1815

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #373 on: April 26, 2020, 05:51:36 PM »

[/quote]
bullshit. Trump was accused of xenophobia and discrimination because he extended his immigration restrictions to more African and Muslim countries. Nothing to do with the pandemic. In another context he used the term 'china virus' in a way that was likely to stir up anti-asian sentiment. Also, he restricted travel from China, did not close it.
[/quote]

He used ‘China virus’ because Communist China tried to pin it in our military. And what’s even more sad is people in our own country will and did believe them. He had to allow US nationals the right to come back to America and couldn’t completely shut it down. Along with those countries you listed, he implemented a ban from all of Europe too. Yet he still gets criticized. So again, he’s explained this. Yet our media continues to spread blatant lies and fake news.

Trump could tell people to eat their vegetables and greens and the media would spin it to say he told people to go eat the grass outta their yards. How fucking stupid can people be?! They’ll do ANYTHING to try and make him look bad or remove him. Pelosi even said do. The Democratic Party is in shambles and they are completely insane.

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illiniray

9468
+636/-2108

Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

« Reply #374 on: April 26, 2020, 07:09:37 PM »

Quote from: Judge Judy on April 26, 2020, 05:51:36 PM

bullshit. Trump was accused of xenophobia and discrimination because he extended his immigration restrictions to more African and Muslim countries. Nothing to do with the pandemic. In another context he used the term 'china virus' in a way that was likely to stir up anti-asian sentiment. Also, he restricted travel from China, did not close it.
[/quote][/b]

He used ‘China virus’ because Communist China tried to pin it in our military. And what’s even more sad is people in our own country will and did believe them. He had to allow US nationals the right to come back to America and couldn’t completely shut it down. Along with those countries you listed, he implemented a ban from all of Europe too. Yet he still gets criticized. So again, he’s explained this. Yet our media continues to spread blatant lies and fake news.

Trump could tell people to eat their vegetables and greens and the media would spin it to say he told people to go eat the grass outta their yards. How fucking stupid can people be?! They’ll do ANYTHING to try and make him look bad or remove him. Pelosi even said do. The Democratic Party is in shambles and they are completely insane.
[/quote]

sigh

“The Trump Administration’s expansion of its outrageous, un-American travel ban threatens our security, our values and the rule of law. The sweeping rule, barring more than 350 million individuals from predominantly African nations from traveling to the United States, is discrimination disguised as policy,” Pelosi said in a statement.

The statement comes after the Trump administration announced it would restrict the ability of immigrants from Nigeria, Myanmar, Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Sudan and Tanzania to get certain immigration visas.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/480991-pelosi-trumps-expanded-travel-ban-is-outrageous-un-american-and-threatens-rule

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