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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3855 on: December 24, 2021, 10:37:28 PM »
I’m going to post this for like the 20th time since February 2020. I believe this article was originally titled “A Vaccine Won’t Stop the New Coronavirus”

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

Epidemiologists knew what this was almost two years ago. They knew coronaviruses mutate and vaccines wouldn’t work long term. They knew it was likely uncontainable and would become endemic. This is a rare nugget of truth that came before this whole thing became hopelessly politicized.

How long are we going to shut down industries because vaccinated people test positive and aren’t even sick? We are actually really lucky the most transmissible variant is the one that is the most mild.

But I anticipate the people who are delusional enough to still think we can “crush the virus” will demand we shut everything down again and everyone scared to death of liability will follow suit.

In the beginning it was all about trying to keep hospitals from being overrun. That was a rational response. Unfortunately Covid is now an entire fucking industry/religion unto itself. And industries and religions don’t like cannibalizing their own businesses and jobs so don’t look for this to go away any time soon. 🤦🏻

What a ridiculous take. Do you pump gas for a living or some other thing that requires zero critical thought?

First off the garbage take that since a vaccine is not an absolute, it's worthless. Unfortunately an even worse take amongst many of the vaccinated is thinking the vaccine *IS* an absolute. These are all tools we use towards a goal.

This quote is really the creme de le creme of fuzzy thinking.

"How long are we going to shut down industries because vaccinated people test positive and aren’t even sick?"

It implies that the companies are just doing the will of BIG BROTHER. Successful companies are successful because they make good decisions. If you're the CEO of say, United, there is NO WAY you're gonna fly with a flight attendant who popped a positive and the company knows about it. First off, that threatens spread across their workforce, and they could lose additional employees, to symptoms or because the employee voluntarily quaranteens (ordering a known positive employee to go to work would pretty much result in an employee strike and a passenger boycott). Operationally, it's a disaster. This is also the rationale for a vaccine mandate. Vaccinated employees are less likely to pop a positive, to spread before a positive hits, and will recover sooner (note also that a company like United is almost certainly self-insured for health care so an employee who avoids a hospital stay is a direct positive to the bottom line, they aren't paying buffet premiums).

The biggest deal is that if you are flying with a staffer with a known positive, and a passenger is infected and dies, that's an 8 figure lawsuit and a public relations disaster.

Here's a thought anecdote. Across the country, schools are having huge staffing issues. they can't keep full time staff, substitutes are very difficult to find. Teaching isn't a very attractive concept right now.

My son's school has mandatory masking, 2x/week testing of all students, faculty, and family of same. If you leave the state or fly, student must stay home two weeks and get a negative PCR. Layered on top of this is a generalized culture - "nobody is gonna get COVID. Period. Don't be stupid."

Sounds pretty awful, huh? The 8th grade teacher quit to move away to take care of his aging Mother. In an atmosphere where hiring is super difficult, in a high cost area - the school had 30 applicants for the job. Because for a teacher, knowing the school is gonna do everything it can to prevent an infection and the parents aren't going around accosting the faculty, that's a pretty damn attractive job. What's worse? Having to wear masks or not having a stable teacher situation?

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3856 on: December 24, 2021, 10:49:45 PM »
how fucking stupid are you, all the info you need to form an informed opinion is out there... but you choose to consume leftist mainstream media for retards instead

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

Lulz
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3857 on: December 24, 2021, 10:58:31 PM »
Looks like no data from the armpit of Indiana.

This constant quote you keep throwing out about the armpit of Indiana/America is amusing. I live in a very nice hilly wooded area with abundant local indoor and outdoor recreational activities, mild weather, and a short drive from a large number of other worthwhile things to do and places to see.

I remember when I still lived in Illinois and 97 would rag on how bad downstate Illinois was. I would always vigorously defend C-U in particular. Now that I’ve been gone for 9 months and have been back to the area a few times it is amazing how desolate and run down everything seems.

But hey different strokes right
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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3858 on: December 24, 2021, 11:22:37 PM »
I'm sure it's very comfortable for the MAGAdjacent.

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3859 on: December 25, 2021, 12:08:56 AM »
What a ridiculous take. Do you pump gas for a living or some other thing that requires zero critical thought?

First off the garbage take that since a vaccine is not an absolute, it's worthless. Unfortunately an even worse take amongst many of the vaccinated is thinking the vaccine *IS* an absolute. These are all tools we use towards a goal.

This quote is really the creme de le creme of fuzzy thinking.

"How long are we going to shut down industries because vaccinated people test positive and aren’t even sick?"

It implies that the companies are just doing the will of BIG BROTHER. Successful companies are successful because they make good decisions. If you're the CEO of say, United, there is NO WAY you're gonna fly with a flight attendant who popped a positive and the company knows about it. First off, that threatens spread across their workforce, and they could lose additional employees, to symptoms or because the employee voluntarily quaranteens (ordering a known positive employee to go to work would pretty much result in an employee strike and a passenger boycott). Operationally, it's a disaster. This is also the rationale for a vaccine mandate. Vaccinated employees are less likely to pop a positive, to spread before a positive hits, and will recover sooner (note also that a company like United is almost certainly self-insured for health care so an employee who avoids a hospital stay is a direct positive to the bottom line, they aren't paying buffet premiums).

The biggest deal is that if you are flying with a staffer with a known positive, and a passenger is infected and dies, that's an 8 figure lawsuit and a public relations disaster.

Here's a thought anecdote. Across the country, schools are having huge staffing issues. they can't keep full time staff, substitutes are very difficult to find. Teaching isn't a very attractive concept right now.

My son's school has mandatory masking, 2x/week testing of all students, faculty, and family of same. If you leave the state or fly, student must stay home two weeks and get a negative PCR. Layered on top of this is a generalized culture - "nobody is gonna get COVID. Period. Don't be stupid."

Sounds pretty awful, huh? The 8th grade teacher quit to move away to take care of his aging Mother. In an atmosphere where hiring is super difficult, in a high cost area - the school had 30 applicants for the job. Because for a teacher, knowing the school is gonna do everything it can to prevent an infection and the parents aren't going around accosting the faculty, that's a pretty damn attractive job. What's worse? Having to wear masks or not having a stable teacher situation?

It’s almost like you didn’t even read what I wrote or the article I posted. You built up a big straw man about vaccines being absolutes. Never once have I said they don’t offer value, nor have I ever said they’re a savior.

Like most issues, I fall in the middle. However it seems almost everyone besides else falls into one of those two extreme schools of thought. That’s why it’s hard for either side to wrap their heads around someone who isn’t firmly in one camp or the other. And I’m the one who pumps gas for a living and has no critical thought skills? For what little it’s worth, my primary source of income is a Silicon Valley tech firm.

I also touched directly on the corporate worries about liability and the difficulty of doing everything you outlined in your United analogy until we eventually accept that Covid is endemic and we do away with all the testing. That was the qualifier. I have also expounded on the teacher issues.

I will again point out that epidemiologists were well aware that this was likely uncontainable almost two full years ago, but here we are still arguing about it containing it. Obviously you’re really, really, really dug in on your viewpoint that we can still banish this virus through an ever-intensifying dog and pony show of testing and vaccinating and isolating and contact tracing and soft shutdowns despite the fact that it just keeps spreading. But make no mistake, those tools are now simply mitigation-ish measures and nothing even remotely along the lines of eradication measures.

There’s a practical stance (like we knew almost two years ago) and then there’s this convoluted, uber expensive pie-in-the-sky “stop the spread” bullshit that is completely passé. The toothpaste is out of the tube, man. It ain’t going back in. You’ll feel a lot less resentful and helpless if you just recalibrate your mind to accept this obvious reality.

The discussion needs to turn from “stopping the spread” to “how do we best live with this endemic virus” ASAP.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3860 on: December 25, 2021, 12:12:43 AM »
I'm sure it's very comfortable for the MAGAdjacent.

I’m firmly in the champagne liberal exurbs. Our hospitals aren’t full, either. Even in the poorest, most densely populated areas of the city. Or the outlying rural MAGa areas.  And zero is the number of times I even contemplated voting for Trump.

People try so so hard to pigeonhole me because it is incomprehensible that I haven’t picked a team. Society always hates free thinkers.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 12:17:38 AM by Custard »
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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3861 on: December 25, 2021, 12:33:58 AM »
Wait, so because your hospital isn't full, therefore hospitals aren't full?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3862 on: December 25, 2021, 12:09:44 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/-never-going-away-covid-continues-delay-medical-care-hospitals-nationw-rcna9658

Was talking to a buddy whose wife is a nurse. Said doctors getting fed up with the anti vaxxers coming into their hospital because they are sick and then refusing medicine. "If you don't want us to treat you, why are you here?"

Make the dumb asses pay the full cost themselves and this will get sorted out quick.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3863 on: December 25, 2021, 10:29:34 PM »
Wait, so because your hospital isn't full, therefore hospitals aren't full?

Or, why is my armpit in so much better shape than C-U?
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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3864 on: December 25, 2021, 10:47:32 PM »
If you don't report the data, it looks great. Just like Mr. Cheeto said.

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3865 on: December 25, 2021, 11:39:34 PM »
If you don't report the data, it looks great. Just like Mr. Cheeto said.

So Alum’s link showing local data is bogus?
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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3866 on: December 26, 2021, 02:05:41 AM »
Looks like no data from the armpit of Indiana.

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3867 on: December 26, 2021, 02:35:39 AM »
Obviously you’re really, really, really dug in on your viewpoint that we can still banish this virus
Hold on, didn't you just say you're against massive straw men?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3868 on: December 26, 2021, 07:14:26 AM »
Ouch
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #3869 on: December 26, 2021, 10:14:37 AM »
"Vermont has the highest vaccination rate in the nation, is one of the least densely populated states, and the ERs are clogged by people with no COVID symptoms."



vs Fauci .... said it would be safe for fully vaccinated individuals, who are boosted, to attend smaller family gatherings.
Quite the dilemma.