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TSJ suspended charged with rape

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Lkdog

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #540 on: January 21, 2024, 02:31:16 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on January 21, 2024, 02:11:44 PM
Exactly. So you want him to be treated like the example I showed?! Is that better look for the university?!

Not sure how you could ever possibly come to that conclusion but you be you.  ::)


« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 02:33:52 PM by Lkdog »
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Lkdog

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #541 on: January 21, 2024, 02:33:41 PM »
Quote from: Custard on January 21, 2024, 12:33:48 PM
The insinuation here is incompetence but I think what happened in the end was actually a pretty brilliant workaround for a rather unusual case.

Had there been decent evidence he forcibly raped someone in the traditional sense, people would feel differently. Given the nature of this case and with the university being sympathetic to TSJ the entire time, I don’t think the exposure to the university is really that high.

The word brilliance for the university response does not immediately come to mind.

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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #542 on: January 21, 2024, 02:39:06 PM »
Never took Custard and Mn as being "glass half full" guys, but here we are.

Given the difficulties in this instance for the university trying to investigate the claim, wouldn't the odds favor that  he would not have been suspended to date?

After the preliminary hearing, with evidence been presented in the criminal case, maybe the odds shift?
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Judge Judy

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #543 on: January 21, 2024, 02:41:03 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on January 21, 2024, 02:31:16 PM
Not sure how you could ever possibly come to that conclusion but you be you.  ::)

So you’d have kicked a potentially and possibly innocent kid off the team, ruin his life, and ostracized him from everything he currently has worked for his whole life, all because he’s being accused of something? Again, he should be able to play in the meantime. He’s currently innocent. That you can’t argue. I linked that example because you potentially make the mistake of hurting him and he’s found to have done nothing wrong.
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Lkdog

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #544 on: January 21, 2024, 04:17:14 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on January 21, 2024, 02:41:03 PM
So you’d have kicked a potentially and possibly innocent kid off the team, ruin his life, and ostracized him from everything he currently has worked for his whole life, all because he’s being accused of something? Again, he should be able to play in the meantime. He’s currently innocent. That you can’t argue. I linked that example because you potentially make the mistake of hurting him and he’s found to have done nothing wrong.

Yes that is exactly what I said.  ::)
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illiniray

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #545 on: January 21, 2024, 05:14:47 PM »
Quote from: Mn on January 21, 2024, 05:56:20 AM
So ?
If it was the correct procedure to follow, so be it.

 Others said he would still be suspended. That is possible. My impression is he would be playing pending a finding.
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illiniray

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #546 on: January 21, 2024, 05:31:13 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on January 21, 2024, 10:14:19 AM
Nobody has answered my simple question.

How many players do we know of have continued to play in intercollegiate athletics anywhere while out on bond for a felony rape charge, or any felony charge?

I googled it. It looks like there have been a lot that played while being charged or even convicted of a serious felony. It appears mostly at a new school.

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Judge Judy

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #547 on: January 21, 2024, 06:11:32 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 21, 2024, 05:31:13 PM
I googled it. It looks like there have been a lot that played while being charged or even convicted of a serious felony. It appears mostly at a new school.

Who’s the Kitna QB who got arrested for child porn and now playing?! Jon’s kid.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #548 on: January 21, 2024, 06:44:59 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 21, 2024, 05:14:47 PM
Others said he would still be suspended. That is possible. My impression is he would be playing pending a finding.
I misunderstood, kind of. I was assuming his OSCR hearing would have occured. And I assume he won't be playing after a hearing.
If not, he may very well be playing until a hearing resolution.
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Judge Judy

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #549 on: January 21, 2024, 06:45:52 PM »
Quote from: Mn on January 21, 2024, 06:44:59 PM
I misunderstood, kind of. I was assuming his OSCR hearing would have occured.
If not, he may very well be playing until a hearing resolution.

Yeah, I stated earlier that I must’ve got something mixed up or confused, or misunderstood something in this discussion.
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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #550 on: January 21, 2024, 06:51:45 PM »
Due Process... From pages 19-20 of the opinion:
Quote
In Count VI, Plaintiff alleges a claim under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 against Illinois President Timothy Killeen for deprivation of Plaintiff’s protected interests without
procedural due process. (Doc. 1-1 at 38-39). Section 1983 provides, in pertinent part, that “[e]very person who, under color of [state law], subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States... to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities
secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law.” 42 U.S.C. § 1983. To state a valid claim for relief under § 1983, Plaintiff must
establish that he was deprived of a constitutional right or a right secured by federal law and that the alleged deprivation was committed under color of state law. American Mfrs.
Mut. Ins. Co. v. Sullivan, 526 U.S. 40, 49–50 (1999); Padula v. Leimbach, 656 F.3d 595, 600 (7th Cir. 2011).
The Fourteenth Amendment prevents a state from depriving a person of
“property” or “liberty” without due process of law. U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1. In order to proceed under a procedural due process claim, the plaintiff must first identify the protected property or liberty interest at stake. Malhotra v. University of Illinois at Urbana-
Champaign, 77 F.4th 532, 536 (7th Cir. 2023). Next, if the plaintiff was deprived of one of those interests, the court must determine what process was due under the circumstances. Id. (citing Charleston v. Bd. of Trustees of Univ. of Illinois at Chicago, 741 F.3d 769, 772 (7th
Cir. 2013)).


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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #551 on: January 21, 2024, 07:24:38 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 21, 2024, 05:14:47 PM
Others said he would still be suspended. That is possible. My impression is he would be playing pending a finding.
From the OSCR site:
OSCR has several days to inform the accused with a charge notice. Cases of a non-sexual misconduct investigation average 20 days.
"The anticipated duration of a sexual misconduct investigation is approximately 40
business days following the charge notice."

If the university began the OSCR review the 1st week of January it may be the end of Big10 season or during March Madness that would be the earliest for any resolution.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 07:26:18 PM by Mn »
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Lkdog

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #552 on: January 21, 2024, 10:46:22 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on January 21, 2024, 06:11:32 PM
Who’s the Kitna QB who got arrested for child porn and now playing?! Jon’s kid.

He was dismissed by Florida after the arrest. Then got the felony charges dropped in a plea deal. Then enrolled at another school.




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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #553 on: January 22, 2024, 10:30:22 AM »
Because there seems to be an issue here at HQ on this issue....pp33-35

Quote
Other courts have held that preventing student-athletes from competition creates an irreparable harm for which there is no adequate legal remedy. See Ganden v. NCAA, 1996 WL 680000, at *6 (N.D. Ill. Nov. 21, 1996). In Ganden, in considering a motion for injunctive relief filed by a freshman swimmer at Michigan State University, the district court found there would be irreparable harm for which there is no adequate remedy absent an injunction, particularly because the careers for competitive swimmers last only a few years and peak between the ages of 19 and 21. Id. at *1, 6. The court noted the swimmer would “lose an entire year of competition and a significant proportion of his swimming career” and “that the loss of a year of competition is likely to inhibit his development as a swimmer during a critical point in his career.” Id. Ultimately, the court concluded the losses would be difficult to quantify in financial terms. Id.; see also Hutsonville Cmty. Unit Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. Illinois High Sch. Ass’n, 195 N.E.3d 662, 666-667 (5th Dist. 2021) (high school senior athlete granted TRO “because failure to compete for a year was the type of injury that could not be corrected by monetary judgment”).

In contending Plaintiff has not suffered irreparable harm, Defendants cite Hall v. NCAA, 985 F. Supp. 782 (N.D. Ill. 1997), wherein the court considered the plaintiff’s request for injunctive relief after he was declared academically ineligible to play basketball at Bradley University. Id. at 784-785. The plaintiff in Hall was a freshman who had been highly recruited nationally out of high school. Id. at 785. Because he was deemed academically ineligible, the plaintiff was “ineligible to practice with, or compete on behalf of, Bradley’s men’s basketball team,” and was “not allowed to receive any part of his full athletic scholarship.” Id. at 791. The plaintiff alleged that absent an injunction, he would be “denied the opportunity to play major college basketball and pursue his dream of becoming a professional basketball player.” Id. at 800. The district court determined that, while a one-season delay might be an “inconvenience,” plaintiff had not shown that “a one season delay will extinguish [his] college (and hopeful professional) career, thereby irreparably harming him.” Id.

Defendants contend Plaintiff’s loss of the opportunity to compete is less severe than in Hall because Plaintiff has already played part of the season and the suspension is only temporary and subject to being lifted based on changed circumstances. The Court disagrees. Plaintiff is nearing the end of his college basketball career, not hoping to begin it like the plaintiff in Hall. The Hall plaintiff had at least three years to establish himself as a professional basketball prospect. While the plaintiff in Hall aspired to play professional basketball, Plaintiff’s professional basketball prospects are much more of a reality. Plaintiff’s projected draft position improved significantly based on his performance during the early part of the season.

[DISCUSSES NIL ISSUES.]

The Court recognizes that because of the pending criminal charges, some of this harm will remain whether or not Plaintiff resumes playing basketball this season. However, the Court finds there is some merit in Plaintiff’s assertion that, absent reinstatement, the public perception may be that the University presumes Plaintiff to be guilty or, in the very least, actually investigated whether the allegations were substantiated before suspending him for the duration of the season. More importantly, Plaintiff will not have an adequate remedy at law if, for argument purposes only, the pending criminal charges are dismissed, or he is acquitted on said charges after the conclusion of the basketball season and NBA Draft.
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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #554 on: January 22, 2024, 10:33:02 AM »
Quote from: Mn on January 21, 2024, 07:24:38 PM
From the OSCR site:
OSCR has several days to inform the accused with a charge notice. Cases of a non-sexual misconduct investigation average 20 days.
"The anticipated duration of a sexual misconduct investigation is approximately 40
business days following the charge notice."

If the university began the OSCR review the 1st week of January it may be the end of Big10 season or during March Madness that would be the earliest for any resolution.

Gunether Jr. claimed in his press conference (and cited by the judge) that OSCR was running parallel with whatever the DIA had concocted. So it is allegedly at least 3 weeks in. If they are even proceeding.
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