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THE JFC Thread!

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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2040 on: December 12, 2023, 09:26:27 PM »
To go back to the "he's obviously not as good a runner as Fields" - I think he's pretty fucking electric but even if that is absolutely true, it shows a fundamental gap between what you are looking for in your NFL QB, and what I am.

It's great to have a QB who can get some yards on the ground.  I cannot name a single NFL QB who was good long term with his legs as his primary weapon.  Not one.  The QB needs to be able to pass the ball, that is always going to be a far more important attribute in a QB in the NFL to me (college, a little different).

Fields is fun as hell (if anxiety-inducing) to watch, I totally agree.  I don't think a guy who at the end of year 3 is still mostly a ballcarrier rather than a passer is the answer long term.

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2041 on: December 12, 2023, 09:50:23 PM »
I just don’t think you pass on the opportunity to draft the best QB prospect since 2012 with Andrew Luck. It’s been reported that he might be the best prospect since Peyton Manning. I know that’s subjective, but can a franchise like the Bears pass on that?!

Better than Trevor Lawrence? I’m not sure about that.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2042 on: December 12, 2023, 09:58:13 PM »
To go back to the "he's obviously not as good a runner as Fields" - I think he's pretty fucking electric but even if that is absolutely true, it shows a fundamental gap between what you are looking for in your NFL QB, and what I am.

It's great to have a QB who can get some yards on the ground.  I cannot name a single NFL QB who was good long term with his legs as his primary weapon.  Not one.  The QB needs to be able to pass the ball, that is always going to be a far more important attribute in a QB in the NFL to me (college, a little different).

Fields is fun as hell (if anxiety-inducing) to watch, I totally agree.  I don't think a guy who at the end of year 3 is still mostly a ballcarrier rather than a passer is the answer long term.

So I will try to explain this as best I can. As of right now, I think Fields is an average NFL starter, I get it average isn’t what we want, but I think he’s only scratching the surface of his potential. He’s probably the only “average” quarterback in the league who terrifies defensive coordinators. The defense (usually) literally gives up one of their players to mirror his movements. I think with a brighter offensive coordinator that can be taken advantage of more often. He helps open up lanes in the passing and running game for others.

His learning curve hasn’t been as accelerated as we’d like it to be, but I think there are some reasons for that beyond just his control. We want him to put up big passing numbers, and he’s barely even had an adequate team around him for any length of time. For 5 years Patrick Mahomes had Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, and Andy Reid. Those are three 1st ballot HOFers. Justin has had DJ Moore (for 9 games), Darnell Mooney, and Luke Getsy. Now that Mahomes doesn’t have Hill, and Travis Kelce looks to be in a slight decline all of a sudden he looks merely pretty good instead of superhuman.

I think I know what the floor is (fairly high) with Fields, and I think his ceiling is still through the roof. He’s not expensive yet, and I’m not sure I’m trading that in for a guy I’m 60% sure will be great at the next level.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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ThePAMan

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2043 on: December 12, 2023, 10:02:17 PM »
"Trading that in for a guy i admittedly have never watched....." appears to be missing from that sentence.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2044 on: December 12, 2023, 10:09:49 PM »
"Trading that in for a guy i admittedly have never watched....." appears to be missing from that sentence.

You’re right, I should watch his film and then I will know for SURE.


You were all over this guy’s nuts until two months ago
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2045 on: December 12, 2023, 10:11:13 PM »
You have told me straight up that you would not draft him, so what’s your plan? Are you still digging into the film?
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Judge Judy

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2046 on: December 12, 2023, 10:19:03 PM »
Better than Trevor Lawrence? I’m not sure about that.

How?! You yourself said you have no idea. All kinds of GM’s have said that. Best prospect since Luck and possibly Peyton Manning. No bullshit. You think those GM’s don’t know more than the media?!
Because FOX News told me so…

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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2047 on: December 12, 2023, 10:20:05 PM »
So I will try to explain this as best I can. As of right now, I think Fields is an average NFL starter, I get it average isn’t what we want, but I think he’s only scratching the surface of his potential. He’s probably the only “average” quarterback in the league who terrifies defensive coordinators. The defense (usually) literally gives up one of their players to mirror his movements. I think with a brighter offensive coordinator that can be taken advantage of more often. He helps open up lanes in the passing and running game for others.

His learning curve hasn’t been as accelerated as we’d like it to be, but I think there are some reasons for that beyond just his control. We want him to put up big passing numbers, and he’s barely even had an adequate team around him for any length of time. For 5 years Patrick Mahomes had Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, and Andy Reid. Those are three 1st ballot HOFers. Justin has had DJ Moore (for 9 games), Darnell Mooney, and Luke Getsy. Now that Mahomes doesn’t have Hill, and Travis Kelce looks to be in a slight decline all of a sudden he looks merely pretty good instead of superhuman.

I think I know what the floor is (fairly high) with Fields, and I think his ceiling is still through the roof. He’s not expensive yet, and I’m not sure I’m trading that in for a guy I’m 60% sure will be great at the next level.

A lot of average passers "terrify defensive coordinators" when they are able to beat them with their legs.  Robert Griffin III terrified defensive coordinators, but he got hurt and couldn't run anymore and never could pass the ball consistently.

I think Fields is an "average NFL starter" - in that he provides average value to an NFL team as a starting QB - if you take into account BOTH his electric running, and his mediocre passing (combined with his sack and turnover issues).  Like, unless he becomes a better passer, I'm never going to be sold on him even if he rushes for a ton of yards.  He needs to be able to throw the ball IMO, and despite the claims earlier this year of some huge turnaround that hasn't really materialized.

Obviously he doesn't need to throw for 300 yards and 4 TD every game, but even since the Washington game he's just been "okay" in the passing game.  Efficient and hasn't thrown picks (which is great), but he isn't really consistently moving the ball with his arm in the way you'd like to see.

I agree re: now that Mahomes doesn't have Tyreek, he and Kelce both look human.  But I think that's a large part of what scares me about Fields - it will not be long until we will have to pay him in a way that will limit our ability to put weapons around him, and even the Chiefs have looked more human since they had to pay Mahomes and had to move Tyreek.  I do not think he's really come close - IMO - to justify what he'll need to be to be worth what the Bears will have to pay to keep him.

Like obviously everyone is hoping this never happens, but say Fields got hurt in a way that severely limited his athleticism/running game.  How confident are you that he can be a really good passer, if the threat to run for 100 yards isn't there anymore?  At some point in Fields' career assuming he lasts 5-8 more years at a minimum, that ability will no longer be there.

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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2048 on: December 12, 2023, 10:21:40 PM »
If the Bears had picks 1 and 5 and took Williams or Maye at 1, would you support them moving up to get Harrison at 3?

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2049 on: December 12, 2023, 10:21:50 PM »
Apparently PAMan has already watched the film.

"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2050 on: December 12, 2023, 10:22:38 PM »
If the Bears had picks 1 and 5 and took Williams or Maye at 1, would you support them moving up to get Harrison at 3?

Depends on the cost.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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ThePAMan

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2051 on: December 12, 2023, 10:24:58 PM »
Apparently PAMan has already watched the film.



He was terrible against a pedestrian Notre Dame defense. I have big concerns. But, what do I know about how his skills will translate? I know I would not keep Fields. Seen enough of his holding the ball top long.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2052 on: December 12, 2023, 10:26:55 PM »
How?! You yourself said you have no idea. All kinds of GM’s have said that. Best prospect since Luck and possibly Peyton Manning. No bullshit. You think those GM’s don’t know more than the media?!

I can read scouting reports. I don’t think Williams is more highly regarded than Lawrence. High ceiling sure, also higher bust potential than Lawrence.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Judge Judy

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2053 on: December 12, 2023, 10:27:05 PM »
I don’t necessarily think Fields has progressed as a passer. I think that there’s gonna be games where his numbers are much better because he can hit his first read (usually Moore or Kmet). When defenses stop that, he has a hard time finding others open. That part of the inconsistency. Moore is a great receiver and he’s gonna get open a lot, but I don’t think passing to him is necessarily “helping” Fields get better with things like going through progressions. In fact, I think it hampers that development.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #2054 on: December 12, 2023, 10:27:58 PM »
He was terrible against a pedestrian Notre Dame defense. I have big concerns. But, what do I know about how his skills will translate? I know I would not keep Fields. Seen enough of his holding the ball top long.

So you don’t know how his skills would translate but somehow I should? If I watch the film I can be SURE.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.