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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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No one in Mn

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #165 on: April 19, 2023, 04:52:05 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 19, 2023, 04:48:22 PM
I'm thinking it was money. Who would not want to live on Tulsa Time?
Maybe it was tornadoes. It wasn't the Hurricanes.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #166 on: April 19, 2023, 07:29:52 PM »
I don’t know it to be a fact, but Hurley was a high IQ PG for Duke in their heyday. That’s probably enough street cred to believe he’s likely better at Xs and Os than Underwood, who is pedestrian at Xs and Os.
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Judge Judy

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #167 on: April 19, 2023, 08:15:07 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 07:29:52 PM
I don’t know it to be a fact, but Hurley was a high IQ PG for Duke in their heyday. That’s probably enough street cred to believe he’s likely better at Xs and Os than Underwood, who is pedestrian at Xs and Os.

Uhhh what’s your point?

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Judge Judy

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #168 on: April 19, 2023, 08:16:06 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 04:10:32 PM
As long as you totally ignore their results - and not just at ASU and Illinois, notably - then sure.

I'm not willing to ignore their actual, objective results to make an argument based on how I feel.

As an extreme illustrative example, it's kind of like saying that Roy Williams and John Groce are comparable coaches - sure one of them had notably better results than the other, but he got them at Kansas and UNC while the other got his at Illinois, Akron, and Ohio, so they're really comparable.  Switch Roy Williams at UNC and Groce at Illinois, which program turns out better?

Nah man, do Trubisky to Mahomes…
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #169 on: April 20, 2023, 08:52:39 AM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on April 19, 2023, 08:16:06 PM
Nah man, do Trubisky to Mahomes…

Only someone very stupid or very dishonest or both would still be making this claim, so I'm not surprised.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #170 on: April 20, 2023, 09:26:31 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 20, 2023, 08:52:39 AM
Only someone very stupid or very dishonest or both would still be making this claim, so I'm not surprised.

Lighten up, Francis. It was a joke, Spark. Another Tempo meme reference.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #171 on: April 20, 2023, 09:32:37 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 20, 2023, 08:52:39 AM
Only someone very stupid or very dishonest or both would still be making this claim, so I'm not surprised.

I do remember the time Trubisky was statistically on par with Mahomes, though.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #172 on: April 20, 2023, 09:33:27 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 20, 2023, 09:26:31 AM
Lighten up, Francis. It was a joke, Spark. Another Tempo meme reference.

One of MANY!
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #173 on: April 20, 2023, 09:35:16 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 04:10:32 PM
As long as you totally ignore their results - and not just at ASU and Illinois, notably - then sure.

I'm not willing to ignore their actual, objective results to make an argument based on how I feel.

As an extreme illustrative example, it's kind of like saying that Roy Williams and John Groce are comparable coaches - sure one of them had notably better results than the other, but he got them at Kansas and UNC while the other got his at Illinois, Akron, and Ohio, so they're really comparable.  Switch Roy Williams at UNC and Groce at Illinois, which program turns out better?

This is really below your usual standard of work. Usually you make me work harder. For this example to be legit, both of the coaches have to be competent.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #174 on: April 20, 2023, 09:42:19 AM »
Let me ask you this way, Spark. If Hurley were the coach at Illinois; do you think his results would possibly be just as good (possibly even better) than Underwood. And yes, there’s a fair chance he’d be worse than Underwood. Or do you think his results would be exactly the same as ASU, because “they are both high majors” and there’s essentially no difference?
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #175 on: April 20, 2023, 10:16:37 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 20, 2023, 09:32:37 AM
I do remember the time Trubisky was statistically on par with Mahomes, though.

Spark, this is NOT a joke....
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Dominic

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #176 on: April 20, 2023, 10:34:43 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:49:54 PM
Yes.  Because we have hired better coaches.  We’ve hired guys like Henson and Kruger and Underwood that win games and take programs to the tournament consistently.  They’ve hired guys like Bobby Hurley and Herb Sendek that win fewer games and take programs to the tournament occasionally.

The difference in historical success isn’t because of the name on the front of the jersey.  It’s because of the guys we’ve had on the sidelines.  It’s not some inherent superiority.  We had a streak of hiring three great coaches in a row, and got great results.  When we hired two mediocre coaches in a row we got mediocre results, even though we were still Illinois Basketball.

How do you consider Bruce Weber a mediocre coach but not Underwood?

Underwood has far worse results.

But you are the guy that thinks Trubisky is similar to Mahomes lol
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #177 on: April 20, 2023, 10:41:40 AM »
Ok, I laughed.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #178 on: April 20, 2023, 10:54:05 AM »
I think the Trubisky v Mahomes example is actually quite appropriate for this debate. Sometimes the “numbers” don’t tell the entire story.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #179 on: April 20, 2023, 11:18:32 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 20, 2023, 09:32:37 AM
I do remember the time Trubisky was statistically on par with Mahomes, though.

Yep, over a 4-5 week stretch.  Me too.  Are you implying it didn't happen?

I also remember how you misrepresented that intentionally for literal years.
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