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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #135 on: April 19, 2023, 03:30:51 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:28:19 PM
Anthony Longstreet: “Show me the canceled check!”


Is this an elite joke on purpose, or on accident?

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #136 on: April 19, 2023, 03:31:39 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:29:41 PM
So do you feel Calipari’s stint at Memphis was “just as successful” as Kentucky? I’ll hang up and listen.

I think it was pretty comparable, yes.  Very similar win%, better conference win%, about 0.5 tournament wins less per year.

Certainly not a night and day difference by any accounting.  He built Memphis into one of the top few programs in the country, and when he went to Kentucky did the same thing.

They're not identical, but they're certainly much closer than Underwood and Hurley's results.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 03:34:20 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #137 on: April 19, 2023, 03:34:07 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:31:39 PM
I think it was pretty comparable, yes.  Very similar win%, better conference win%, about 0.5 tournament wins less per year.

Certainly not a night and day difference by any accounting.  He built Memphis into one of the top few programs in the country, and when he went to Kentucky did the same thing.

Again, his results at Memphis were excellent. They get you recognition and get you paid. His results at Kentucky get you a 1st class ticket to the HOF. And that was in a half-dozen years.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #138 on: April 19, 2023, 03:34:45 PM »
He was absolutely headed to the Hall of Fame whether he took the Kentucky job or not.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #139 on: April 19, 2023, 03:35:52 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:34:45 PM
He was absolutely headed to the Hall of Fame whether he took the Kentucky job or not.

Right, but you could remove the rest of his career minus those 6 years and he’s in.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #140 on: April 19, 2023, 03:36:30 PM »
You could also pull a Dominic and remove those 6 years entirely and he'd still be in.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #141 on: April 19, 2023, 03:37:37 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:25:14 PM

so arguing about how many Final Fours or Titles he'd have had if he'd stayed is useless, no one can know.  I suspect more than one.

I thought you were the “I only argue on what’s happened” guy and not the “this is what could have happened” guy?
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #142 on: April 19, 2023, 03:39:57 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:36:30 PM
You could also pull a Dominic and remove those 6 years entirely and he'd still be in.

Most likely. Still wouldn’t be as impressive as that 6 year run. That was probably a top 3 run all-time, since Wooden anyway. Certainly would think the modern era.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #143 on: April 19, 2023, 03:41:09 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:39:57 PM
Most likely. Still wouldn’t be as impressive as that 6 year run. That was probably a top 3 run all-time, since Wooden anyway. Certainly would think the modern era.

Yep.  Unfortunately, since then he's been pretty pedestrian.  Not bad by any means, but not even remotely close to the program he had when he left Memphis.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #144 on: April 19, 2023, 03:42:12 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:37:37 PM
I thought you were the “I only argue on what’s happened” guy and not the “this is what could have happened” guy?

Yep.  I am.

If I wasn't, I'd have said "he'd have won a number more if he'd stayed", rather than "we can never know, but I suspect he'd have won more."

I would never use "I feel like" as evidence of my point, you and I are different in that way.  I rarely have to, to be fair, because I try not to make arguments the evidence doesn't support.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #145 on: April 19, 2023, 03:43:23 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:42:12 PM
Yep.  I am.

If I wasn't, I'd have said "he'd have won a number more if he'd stayed", rather than "we can never know, but I suspect he'd have won more."

I would never use "I feel like" as evidence of my point, you and I are different in that way.  I rarely have to, to be fair, because I try not to make arguments the evidence doesn't support.

I feel like we are.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #146 on: April 19, 2023, 03:45:23 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 03:43:23 PM
I feel like we are.

Haha, very nice.

I'm still impressed with the Ayo joke.  I hope it was made because the guy who recruited Anthony Davis was on our staff when we got Ayo, and wasn't just random.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #147 on: April 19, 2023, 03:48:14 PM »
I just feel like it’s preposterous to think everything is mostly equal outside of the coach. Sure, you have transformational coaches like K, Olsen, Calhoun. But there are certainly competitive advantages and disadvantages at work throughout college basketball. And there is literally zero evidence to support the conclusion that ASU is in any way, equal to the U of I.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #148 on: April 19, 2023, 03:49:31 PM »
You have yet to provide any evidence - hell, forget evidence, you haven't even postulated a reason - that Illinois is just inherently a better program than ASU, and that objectively better results at Illinois are 'comparable' to objectively worse results at ASU.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #149 on: April 19, 2023, 03:52:20 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 03:49:31 PM
You have yet to provide any evidence - hell, forget evidence, you haven't even postulated a reason - that Illinois is just inherently a better program than ASU, and that objectively better results at Illinois are 'comparable' to objectively worse results at ASU.

Outside of Final Fours, 1 seeds, high seeds in general, fan support, budget, and history over several decades that heavily favors one side over the other, yes, you’re right. I haven’t.
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