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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2023, 02:33:06 PM »
Arizona is a rarity. UConn is the only real comp that I can think of.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2023, 02:33:15 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:27:10 PM
I’d be pretty fucking shocked if Ayo spent 3 years at Illinois and didn’t know who Bruce Douglass is. And disappointed. Ayo specifically mentioned how he wanted to bring Illinois back. It was his #1 stated goal.

Would bet you money Ayo doesn't know who Bruce Douglas is, unless they've met - which is definitely possible.  I'm confident that when he got on campus he didn't know.

Because believe it or not most 18 year olds, when they're picking a college basketball program, don't do it based on success the program had 20 years before they were born.

I don't think it took a genius to see what the 'main reason' Ayo picked Illinois was.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2023, 02:34:31 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:32:24 PM
Kewl. Now do ASU.

That was the state recruiting rankings dude.  Arizona State is in a state that's had almost twice as many top-50 recruits come from there since we hired Underwood.  It also, obviously, borders California, one of the two or three most talent heavy states.

So you can stop guessing at the "Arizona doesn't produce talent like Illinois" talking point.  Arizona has been producing more top talent than Illinois lately.  Surprising it hasn't led to a bunch of wins for Hurley, huh?

I wish I could say it's surprising you didn't know that, but you've never been one to say, look it up before you state something.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 02:37:19 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2023, 02:36:43 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:33:15 PM
Would bet you money Ayo doesn't know who Bruce Douglas is, unless they've met - which is definitely possible.  I'm confident that when he got on campus he didn't know.

Because believe it or not most 18 year olds, when they're picking a college basketball program, don't do it based on success the program had 20 years before they were born.

I don't think it took a genius to see what the 'main reason' Ayo picked Illinois was.

I think it would be pretty piss poor leadership if the coaching staff didn’t make at least a half-assed effort to teach these kids about the program greats who came before them. I’d be utterly shocked if Ayo didn’t know who Bruce Douglass is.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #79 on: April 19, 2023, 02:38:07 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:36:43 PM
I think it would be pretty piss poor leadership if the coaching staff didn’t make at least a half-assed effort to teach these kids about the program greats who came before them. I’d be utterly shocked if Ayo didn’t know who Bruce Douglass is.

LOL, talking to you it seems like you'd be utterly shocked about a lot of things about college basketball programs.  But that's not a thing about those programs, that's a thing about you.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #80 on: April 19, 2023, 02:40:11 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:29:33 PM
Top-50 recruits since we hired Underwood:

Arizona: 15
Illinois: 9

Does Underwood have to compete with Illinois State for Illinois players?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #81 on: April 19, 2023, 02:40:47 PM »
Don’t you think it’s kind odd that for this entire discussion you’ve been arguing what you FEEL is true - Illinois produces more talent than Arizona, Hurley is comparable to Underwood - and I’ve been arguing what actually is true - their actual results, the actual state recruiting rankings?

Is there never a point where you look at it and think huh, maybe my hunch wasn’t right in this instance?
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2023, 02:41:17 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:40:11 PM
Does Underwood have to compete with Illinois State for Illinois players?

Hahahahaha.  It’s okay to just be like “oh I didn’t know that, I was wrong. my bad.”

Underwood, like Hurley, competes with a lot of top schools for his state’s top talent.  He tends to actually get more of it though, and win more games.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2023, 02:42:23 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:34:31 PM
That was the state recruiting rankings dude.  Arizona State is in a state that's had almost twice as many top-50 recruits come from there since we hired Underwood.  It also, obviously, borders California, one of the two or three most talent heavy states.

So you can stop guessing at the "Arizona doesn't produce talent like Illinois" talking point.  Arizona has been producing more top talent than Illinois lately.  Surprising it hasn't led to a bunch of wins for Hurley, huh?

I wish I could say it's surprising you didn't know that, but you've never been one to say, look it up before you state something.

Even if they are producing good talent, they have to compete with Arizona, UCLA. Probably Texas and Gonzaga. That is an uphill climb. Put a top 10 all-time coach there; then sure, it could happen.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2023, 02:43:06 PM »
FWIW, the notion of in state recruiting is also pretty antiquated these days.

It doesn’t matter where they come from.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2023, 02:43:57 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:42:23 PM
Even if they are producing good talent, they have to compete with Arizona, UCLA. Probably Texas and Gonzaga. That is an uphill climb. Put a top 10 all-time coach there; then sure, it could happen.

And Underwood competes with the blue bloods, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, etc. for top talent from his state.  That’s true both places.  Both coaches have reasonably talent heavy states that are targets for every big school around.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2023, 02:44:10 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:41:17 PM
Hahahahaha.  It’s okay to just be like “oh I didn’t know that, I was wrong. my bad.”

Underwood, like Hurley, competes with a lot of top schools for his state’s top talent.  He tends to actually get more of it though, and win more games.

The fact that you think ASU is on even footing with Illinois is both hysterical and woefully uninformed. Or that Memphis is on equal footing with Kentucky because they had the same coach. There’s a reason HOFers level up to premier schools.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2023, 02:44:40 PM »
Who would want to go to Gonzaga?  They’re really mediocre historically and play in a tiny conference in a tiny gym.  Not desirable.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2023, 02:45:08 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:43:57 PM
And Underwood competes with the blue bloods, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, etc. for top talent from his state.  That’s true both places.  Both coaches have reasonably talent heavy states that are targets for every big school around.

Right, but Illinois at least has a history of landing some of those players.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #89 on: April 19, 2023, 02:47:57 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:44:10 PM
The fact that you think ASU is on even footing with Illinois is both hysterical and woefully uninformed. Or that Memphis is on equal footing with Kentucky because they had the same coach. There’s a reason HOFers level up to premier schools.

“Even footing” in what way?

I think Illinois has an obviously better history, but I also think most of it was multiple decades ago and isn’t that relevant to recruits in 2023.

I don’t think there’s anything inherent about the two schools that states Illinois shall be the better program.  You still haven’t even been able to spell out what that inherent difference is, just “it just is.”  I think they both play in high major conferences with high major athletic budgets, both are in talent heavy states and regions.  There’s no reason ASU can’t be a better program than Illinois just because they haven’t been historically, in the same way that Gonzaga or Baylor or whoever else can become a better and more attractive program than Illinois.  The biggest difference is, ASU has had mediocre coaches who produced mediocre results.  Illinois has had a few of those two, but a couple decades ago hired three straight HOF coaches anymore.  That’s the only real difference between them.
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