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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2023, 02:15:17 PM »
Calapari’s run at Memphis gets you recognition and paid well. Calipari’s first 6 years at Kentucky alone gets you in the HOF.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2023, 02:20:57 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:14:32 PM
History doesn't matter, no.  Obviously.  Our success in the 1980's isn't relevant to our program right now.  Look at the tournament results the last few years and explain the correlation between the best programs now and their success in the 80's-90's-early 2000's.

Talent pools and conference are pretty close between the schools.

I'll take your word on allocated resources, but both have high major budgets.

That’s bullshit. Players like Ayo, Brandon Paul, and Jereme Richmond (sure he didn’t pan out but was highly recruited) cited the history of the Illinois program and their interest in bringing it back as reasons for coming there. Try again.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2023, 02:21:04 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:13:03 PM
Again. You confuse the great results of Memphis with the great results of Kentucky. There’s a huge gap between those “great results.”

There really isn't a big gap.  Well, except that he arguable never had a stretch at Memphis with results as mediocre as his last three years at UK.

He had very similar winning percentages and conference winning percentages - 2% better overall at Kentucky, 4.5% better in conference at Memphis.  His ceiling at Kentucky has been one extra tournament round than he won at Memphis (although using the Lon Kruger logic, he obviously had built a juggernaut at Memphis was likely to have won a title there if he'd stayed; he was literally one point away).

Ignoring the programs he inherited at each place, he won about 1.6 tourney games per year at mid-major Memphis, and about 2.3 tourney games per year at blue blood Kentucky.  Pretty comparable.  Certainly notably more comparable than the results of Brad Underwood and Bobby Hurley.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2023, 02:21:37 PM »
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Arizona produces the kind of basketball talent Illinois historically has.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2023, 02:22:07 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:20:57 PM
That’s bullshit. Players like Ayo, Brandon Paul, and Jereme Richmond (sure he didn’t pan out but was highly recruited) cited the history of the Illinois program and their interest in bringing it back as reasons for coming there. Try again.

LOL.  Man, you're really grasping here.

I promise you that Ayo wouldn't be able to tell you who Bruce Douglas was.  It's a nice thing to say from a Chicago kid, but the notion that they came here because we were good before they were born is a joke.  You're smarter than that, I think.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2023, 02:22:28 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:21:37 PM
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Arizona produces the kind of basketball talent Illinois historically has.

Is Illinois a more desirable program than UA?
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2023, 02:23:39 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:22:28 PM
Is Illinois a more desirable program than UA?

No, but you can mostly thank top 10 coach of all-time Lute Olsen for that.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2023, 02:24:46 PM »
According to this list, I personally know the greatest basketball player from the state of Arizona. I’ve had dinner at his house, and met his mom (didn’t fuck her).


https://www.ranker.com/list/best-nba-players-from-arizona/ranker-nba
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2023, 02:27:10 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:22:07 PM
LOL.  Man, you're really grasping here.

I promise you that Ayo wouldn't be able to tell you who Bruce Douglas was.  It's a nice thing to say from a Chicago kid, but the notion that they came here because we were good before they were born is a joke.  You're smarter than that, I think.

I’d be pretty fucking shocked if Ayo spent 3 years at Illinois and didn’t know who Bruce Douglass is. And disappointed. Ayo specifically mentioned how he wanted to bring Illinois back. It was his #1 stated goal.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2023, 02:29:22 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:21:04 PM
There really isn't a big gap.  Well, except that he arguable never had a stretch at Memphis with results as mediocre as his last three years at UK.

He had very similar winning percentages and conference winning percentages - 2% better overall at Kentucky, 4.5% better in conference at Memphis.  His ceiling at Kentucky has been one extra tournament round than he won at Memphis (although using the Lon Kruger logic, he obviously had built a juggernaut at Memphis was likely to have won a title there if he'd stayed; he was literally one point away).

Ignoring the programs he inherited at each place, he won about 1.6 tourney games per year at mid-major Memphis, and about 2.3 tourney games per year at blue blood Kentucky.  Pretty comparable.  Certainly notably more comparable than the results of Brad Underwood and Bobby Hurley.

There is absolutely a big gap between one title game appearance in 8 years, and 4 Final Fours and a title in 6. You smoking crack?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2023, 02:29:33 PM »
Top-50 recruits since we hired Underwood:

Arizona: 15
Illinois: 9
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2023, 02:30:27 PM »
Again. What Calipari did at Memphis was outstanding. What he did at Kentucky only Wooden and K have surpassed.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2023, 02:31:19 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:29:22 PM
There is absolutely a big gap between one title game appearance in 8 years, and 4 Final Fours and a title in 6. You smoking crack?

Per year, there isn't that big a difference.  Half a tournament win per year.  He's had more mediocre or bad seasons at Kentucky than at Memphis, as well as more F4 seasons.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2023, 02:31:50 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:30:27 PM
Again. What Calipari did at Memphis was outstanding. What he did at Kentucky only Wooden and K have surpassed.

But use your Lon Kruger logic, and he almost certainly wins a couple titles at Memphis right?

The kids he got to Kentucky that won him titles were going to Memphis before he left.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2023, 02:32:24 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:29:33 PM
Top-50 recruits since we hired Underwood:

Arizona: 15
Illinois: 9

Kewl. Now do ASU.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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