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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2023, 01:57:52 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 19, 2023, 12:41:16 PM
Like I said, I am having a tough time comprehending your point in order to come up with something else.

Are you saying that Illinois inherently has advantages that ASU does not?

In basketball, yes. And I’d say history shows that. Either that or they’ve been incredibly unlucky.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2023, 01:59:31 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 01:57:02 PM
Do both have equal histories? Equal facilities? Equal budgets? Equal conferences? Equal local talent pools? Etc?

Definitely don't have equal weather or ladies.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2023, 02:00:43 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 12:39:57 PM
Equal playing fields?  Yes.  They’re both major universities that play high major basketball, both had been similarly mediocre when the current coaches were hired, etc.  There’s nothing stopping ASU from hiring a good coach and getting good results, and as we’ve seen first hand there’s nothing stopping Illinois from hiring a mediocre coach and getting mediocre results

 
That notably isn’t at all what the poll says.

So now things like history, talent pools, conference, and allocated resources don’t matter? I wish we’d make up our minds here…the fact that Illinois has CONSISTENTLY outperformed ASU over the last 50 years says…Advantage: Illinois. There is no other logical conclusion.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2023, 02:03:47 PM »
I just looked it up. Illinois’ basketball budget for ‘23 was almost 9 million. Almost twice that of OSU, which ranks like 87th. But no competitive advantage there, amirite?

https://theresourcenexus.com/budget/


Edit: my bad, don’t know why I looked at Oregon State. Meant Arizona State. Still a healthy 25%+ more budgeted at Illinois.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 02:07:13 PM by Tempo34 »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2023, 02:05:03 PM »
Kentucky basketball budget 17.6 million. Memphis, 6.4. But Calipari can be just as good at Memphis as he’s been at Kentucky, right? Doubtful.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2023, 02:07:54 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:05:03 PM
Kentucky basketball budget 17.6 million. Memphis, 6.4. But Calipari can be just as good at Memphis as he’s been at Kentucky, right? Doubtful.

Except he was. And whose point are you now trying to prove?
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2023, 02:08:08 PM »
I probably did that because literally no one cares about Arizona State Basketball and there’s little difference between them and Oregon State.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2023, 02:09:05 PM »
Not to mention alumni support. I guarantee you Illinois alumni/fan support dwarf that of ASU. But none of that matters, amirite?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2023, 02:09:31 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:03:47 PM
I just looked it up. Illinois’ basketball budget for ‘23 was almost 9 million. Almost twice that of OSU, which ranks like 87th. But no competitive advantage there, amirite?

https://theresourcenexus.com/budget/


Edit: my bad, don’t know why I looked at Oregon State. Meant Arizona State. Still a healthy 25%+ more budgeted at Illinois.

You were a big fan of Craig Robinson, and Reggie Theus, at one point.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2023, 02:09:52 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 01:57:02 PM
Do both have equal histories? Equal facilities? Equal budgets? Equal conferences? Equal local talent pools? Etc?

I have no idea about facilities.  Equal histories isn't at all relevant when comparing their coaches' results.  Yes equal conferences.  Both are relatively close to multiple major talent hubs, but not 'in town'.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2023, 02:10:40 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:09:05 PM
Not to mention alumni support. I guarantee you Illinois alumni/fan support dwarf that of ASU. But none of that matters, amirite?

Unfortunately, it does not really seem to have mattered in the grand scheme of things.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2023, 02:11:23 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:09:05 PM
Not to mention alumni support. I guarantee you Illinois alumni/fan support dwarf that of ASU. But none of that matters, amirite?

In terms of evaluating a coach?

Nope, not even a little bit.

Illinois' athletic budget dwarfs all the schools we talked about earlier too, Iona and UMass and Memphis.  Doesn't matter, when they got great coaches they got great results; when we got mediocre coaches we got mediocre results.

I understand you think that's just a coincidence, but it isn't.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2023, 02:11:57 PM »
A good coach is a good coach. And come overcome a good handful of things. No coach overcomes everything. Unless he’s literally a top 10 all-timer type coach.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2023, 02:13:03 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 02:11:23 PM
In terms of evaluating a coach?

Nope, not even a little bit.

Illinois' athletic budget dwarfs all the schools we talked about earlier too, Iona and UMass and Memphis.  Doesn't matter, when they got great coaches they got great results; when we got mediocre coaches we got mediocre results.

I understand you think that's just a coincidence, but it isn't.

Again. You confuse the great results of Memphis with the great results of Kentucky. There’s a huge gap between those “great results.”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2023, 02:14:32 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 02:00:43 PM
So now things like history, talent pools, conference, and allocated resources don’t matter? I wish we’d make up our minds here…the fact that Illinois has CONSISTENTLY outperformed ASU over the last 50 years says…Advantage: Illinois. There is no other logical conclusion.

History doesn't matter, no.  Obviously.  Our success in the 1980's isn't relevant to our program right now.  Look at the tournament results the last few years and explain the correlation between the best programs now and their success in the 80's-90's-early 2000's.

Talent pools and conference are pretty close between the schools.

I'll take your word on allocated resources, but both have high major budgets.
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