* *

User

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

June 21, 2026, 03:22:51 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Recent

Stats

Members
  • Total Members: 142
  • Latest: Hal9000
Stats
  • Total Posts: 180515
  • Total Topics: 1496
  • Online Today: 494
  • Online Ever: 4316
  • (October 16, 2025, 04:40:42 PM)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 297
Total: 297

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 23   Go Down

who leaves

  • 343 Replies
  • 25800 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

*

Reacher

  • *****
  • 40211
  • +1082/-1068
  • You should see my passer rating
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #210 on: April 04, 2023, 05:39:44 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 05:38:37 PM
It wasn't a yes or no question :)

Do you think it's more likely the next guy is better or worse?

I realized that after I hit post, but I think you get my point. I have faith we could make a good hire.
Logged
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
*

illiniray

  • *****
  • 9412
  • +632/-2105
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #211 on: April 04, 2023, 05:39:54 PM »
Quote from: Dominic on April 04, 2023, 03:27:07 PM
Underwood’s rebuild after Kofi will never come close to any of Weber’s best years after Dee and Deron left. 

It’s all downhill from here. 

Kofi was the program.
He ain’t never coming back.
And he’s never gonna be replicated.

I give credit Weber was able to construct a couple of top 25 teams post Dee/Deron.  And still got fired.

Underwood will never do that again here.  He can’t even keep guys he recruited for more than a couple years. His coaching sucks.  And his GM’ing is even worse.

In case you didn't notice; social media, NIL, and the transfer portal have changed college basketball since Bruce was here.
Logged
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”
*

spark mandrill

  • *****
  • 4043
  • +312/-40
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #212 on: April 04, 2023, 05:40:33 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 04, 2023, 05:39:44 PM
I realized that after I hit post, but I think you get my point. I have faith we could make a good hire.

So you think if we were to fire Underwood, we'd be more likely to get someone better than him (as compared to worse)?

It's fair to say you think it's more likely we'd get worse but it's still worth it to risk that IMO.  I don't agree with it, but I get it.

I don't think it's close though, I think it's considerably more likely whoever we'd hire ends up worse than we've gotten out of Underwood thusfar than better.  Maybe it's worth the risk to take on the smaller possibility that we'd get someone definitely better, but IMO we're not at that point yet at all.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 05:44:05 PM by spark mandrill »
Logged
*

Reacher

  • *****
  • 40211
  • +1082/-1068
  • You should see my passer rating
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #213 on: April 04, 2023, 05:40:50 PM »
Even when we were under inept leadership we hired Kruger and Self. We just bombed badly on Weber and Groce.
Logged
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
*

Reacher

  • *****
  • 40211
  • +1082/-1068
  • You should see my passer rating
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #214 on: April 04, 2023, 05:43:28 PM »
Had RG just made a fairly safe hire like Dana Altman (instead of Weber) it’s possible he’d be on year 20 here.
Logged
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
*

spark mandrill

  • *****
  • 4043
  • +312/-40
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #215 on: April 04, 2023, 05:47:14 PM »
Impressed with your hindsight, as always.
Logged
*

Dominic

  • *****
  • 1605
  • +2/-65535
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #216 on: April 04, 2023, 05:52:29 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 04:56:29 PM
Coming into this year, here are the last-4 year records for the Final Four coaches.

Dan Hurley:
73-47 (40-32 half in the AAC and half in the Big East), two tourney appearances, 0-2 record - probably wouldn't have made it the COVID year.

Jim Larranaga:
65-62 (30-47 in the ACC), one tourney appearance, 3-1 record (E8)

Dusty May
65-56 (34-32 in Conference USA), no tourney appearances

Brian Dutcher
97-29 (54-15 in the Mountain West), 2 tourney appearances (would've definitely been in the COVID year, so we'll count it as 3), 0-2 record.

Which one of these coaches would our fans not have been calling to fire coming into this season?  Dutcher, MAYBE?  Coming off consecutive first round tourney losses to lower seeds, though.  Larranaga maybe coming off an E8, but he wouldn't even have gotten to last year.

Underwood and Hurley have nothing in common. Just look at Kenpom.

Dan Hurley at UConn by Kenpom:

2017-18 (before Hurley): 179
2018-19 (Hurley): 98
2019-20 (Hurley): 52
2020-21 (Hurley): 21
2021-22 (Hurley): 22
2022-23 (Hurley): 1

Contrast that with Underwood:

2016–17 (Before UW): 66
2017-18 (Underwood): 102
2018-19 (Underwood): 84
2019-20 (Underwood): 30
2020-21 (Underwood): 4
2021-22 (Underwood): 20
2022-23 (Underwood): 35

Hurley inherited a worse team and has consistently went upward.

San Diego State/FAU are mid major teams.  They don’t have the same expectations as Illinois and aren’t comparable. 

Larranagga is a made guy after his success at George Mason.  Coaches that take mid majors to Final 4s typically get alot of leeway (see Shaka Smart).

Again, stop defending Underwood. The guy is 31-45 without Kofi Cockburn. None of these other coaches have ever been dependent on one player for success.
Logged
*

spark mandrill

  • *****
  • 4043
  • +312/-40
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #217 on: April 04, 2023, 05:54:14 PM »
Get back over to the kids table Dom.

Actually you know what, that seems like a horrible idea.
Logged
*

Dominic

  • *****
  • 1605
  • +2/-65535
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #218 on: April 04, 2023, 05:56:44 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 05:40:33 PM
So you think if we were to fire Underwood, we'd be more likely to get someone better than him (as compared to worse)?

It's fair to say you think it's more likely we'd get worse but it's still worth it to risk that IMO.  I don't agree with it, but I get it.

I don't think it's close though, I think it's considerably more likely whoever we'd hire ends up worse than we've gotten out of Underwood thusfar than better.  Maybe it's worth the risk to take on the smaller possibility that we'd get someone definitely better, but IMO we're not at that point yet at all.

Underwood without Kofi is the worst coach we’ve ever had.  So you can’t possible do worse than that.  Underwood will never recruit another Kofi, so why hold on to him?

Ron Turner without Kurt Kittner was objectively the worst football coach Illinois ever had until Lovie Smith showed up.  Is it possible that you get worse than Underwood? No.  Degrees of Suck is still Suck.
Logged
*

spark mandrill

  • *****
  • 4043
  • +312/-40
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #219 on: April 04, 2023, 05:57:09 PM »
Dom, shut the fuck up.
Logged
*

Dominic

  • *****
  • 1605
  • +2/-65535
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #220 on: April 04, 2023, 06:00:34 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 05:54:14 PM
Get back over to the kids table Dom.

Actually you know what, that seems like a horrible idea.

You’re non responses just prove I am right.

31-45 without Kofi.   

And it’s only going to get worse next year.
Logged
*

spark mandrill

  • *****
  • 4043
  • +312/-40
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #221 on: April 04, 2023, 06:02:49 PM »
No no, I literally just am not interested and don't care what the dumbest motherfucker I've ever met thinks about this.  Your opinion sincerely doesn't matter.

Like, I would tell you to go tell it to someone who cares, but if that person existed you wouldn't be the universally-hated, emotionally stunted beta that you are.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 06:04:46 PM by spark mandrill »
Logged
*

illiniray

  • *****
  • 9412
  • +632/-2105
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #222 on: April 04, 2023, 06:15:50 PM »
Quote from: Dominic on April 04, 2023, 05:56:44 PM


Ron Turner without Kurt Kittner was objectively the worst football coach Illinois ever had until Lovie Smith showed up. 

No. Gary Moeller was the worst. Jim Valek was the second worst.
Logged
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”
*

Lkdog

  • *****
  • 3204
  • +440/-231
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #223 on: April 04, 2023, 06:35:01 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 04:36:37 PM
That's funny.  Literally everybody I know in real life and talk Illinois sports with like him.

I will say that when we hired him, I expected not to.  I thought I'd feel about him like you apparently do.  But I haven't, really at all.  He gets fiery during games, sometimes probably takes that too far (ignoring the multiple comments from individual players about liking/disliking that approach), but he seems like a pretty intelligent, mostly relaxed, and positive guy most of the time off the court.  Obviously I only see what is presented on television (same as you, I assume), but I'm surprised you think he's super unlikable. 

I think he's consistently been a solid, if not flashy or obviously great, coach at every stop he's been at.  I think he knows what it takes to win games at the college level, but I do think it's fair to question whether he knows how to put himself in that position in the portal era - that said, that's a question for literally every coach right now, including the ones that went deep in this year's tournament.  The portal is wild, and everyone's learning to adjust to it.  I think Underwood got some splashes this year, but they weren't great for the team chemistry.  It will be interesting to see whether he learns from it and adjusts.

I do think fan negativity about a guy who frankly has been pretty darn good for our program overall in terms of where we were when we hired him to now has some level of negative impact on things - it's nearly impossible to win a fanbase back after they've turned on you, and I think we're pretty close to that point with Underwood no matter how the next couple years go.  It's not like if he makes the S16 next year people be saying "I was wrong about Underwood I guess", it'll be "well can he do it every year though?" or "why did we lose to that 7 seed in the S16? we should've been in the E8!" or whatever.  Every single year our fans act like they'd rather have the guys in the Final Four than Underwood, ignoring that by their own standards we would've just fired those guys before they got there.

Not that this is the end-all be-all by any means, but counting the COVID year when we would've made it, how many times has Illinois had four straight tournament teams?

Henson had 8 straight in the 1980's.  Self and Weber made 7 straight in the 2000's.  I think that's the whole list.

As for me being a 'big fan' of Underwood - I think a lot of the criticism he gets is unwarranted, and short-sighted.  I don't know that I'd say I'm super bullish on the guy.    There are definitely a number of coaches that if I knew we could 100% get them I'd be fine with making that move, but that's not really how hiring works most of the time.  I also think if we fire him, the chances we get a guy that's definitely better are considerably lower than the chances we get a guy that's definitely worse - do you agree with that?

Fair enough.

I have said for awhile that I thought the 2019-20 team was a very good coaching and team development and culture development job by UW and staff.
That team would have made some noise in tourney. You did not want to play them by end of year. Did everything pretty well and was tough mentally and physically.

Just not sure why he has not been able to pull that off again really at all.




Logged
*

Lkdog

  • *****
  • 3204
  • +440/-231
    • View Profile
Re: who leaves
« Reply #224 on: April 04, 2023, 06:36:32 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 05:54:14 PM
Get back over to the kids table Dom.

Actually you know what, that seems like a horrible idea.


Custard needs to dump the pedophile.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 23   Go Up
« previous next »