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who leaves

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Jobu

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #180 on: April 04, 2023, 12:27:39 PM »
McDermott has struck me as a dude that seems like he could have a redass.  I do largely agree.

Underwood will either evolve, or be history.  Simple as that.
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Lkdog

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #181 on: April 04, 2023, 02:35:20 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 12:27:30 PM
Given that Underwood's yelling was such a problem, why do you suspect one of our team leaders went public saying he should've yelled at them more?

It's at least worth noting that most of the Final Four coaches also don't have Underwood's record.  Larranaga may not yell, but we'd have fired him years ago.

Hard to say. I think in context Hawkins was bitching and frustrated about the alleged promises made to freshmen, and allowing Mayer to just chuck and nobody running anything that resembled an offense.

As for the record, Underwood has underperformed IMO.
Winning in a proven historically weak conference in which every team shits the bed in the tourney every year is a mixed record at best.
I think he has poor roster construction and is a weak in game coach, and a limited record on player development.
Pretty much rolls the balls out and looks for effort plays.
Easily outcoached.

I do not think any kid sees Illinois as a destination school right now.

If we had made runs in the last 3 years it would be totally different.
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spark mandrill

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #182 on: April 04, 2023, 02:47:44 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on April 04, 2023, 02:35:20 PM
Hard to say. I think in context Hawkins was bitching and frustrated about the alleged promises made to freshmen, and allowing Mayer to just chuck and nobody running anything that resembled an offense.

As for the record, Underwood has underperformed IMO.
Winning in a proven historically weak conference in which every team shits the bed in the tourney every year is a mixed record at best.
I think he has poor roster construction and is a weak in game coach, and a limited record on player development.
Pretty much rolls the balls out and looks for effort plays.
Easily outcoached.

I do not think any kid sees Illinois as a destination school right now.

If we had made runs in the last 3 years it would be totally different.

Underperformed to what standards, exactly?  Certainly not the ones of the program he took over.  Everyone bitched all year and this would've probably been the second best season between Dee Brown graduating and Brad Underwood being hired.  If he's raised the bar to the point where an every-year tourney program is underperforming, that seems like something to give him credit for no?

Also Hawkins wasn't talking about Mayer at all, he was clapping back at that moron on Twitter who sent a letter to the University whining about Underwood.  He pretty clearly finds the "Underwood sucks because he yells" narrative stupid as fuck.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 02:52:39 PM by spark mandrill »
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Danny Parkins

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #183 on: April 04, 2023, 03:00:03 PM »
If you’re satisfied with McDonald’s you’ll never make the move up to Five Guys.
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spark mandrill

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #184 on: April 04, 2023, 03:04:23 PM »
And if you fire your guy and start over as soon as he builds your burger restaurant from the ground up, you're more likely to end up without a burger at all than a better burger.
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Danny Parkins

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #185 on: April 04, 2023, 03:05:47 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 03:04:23 PM
And if you fire your guy and start over as soon as he builds your burger restaurant from the ground up, you're more likely to end up without a burger at all than a better burger.

Mmmmmm butter burger…
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Dominic

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #186 on: April 04, 2023, 03:12:27 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 02:47:44 PM
Everyone bitched all year and this would've probably been the second best season between Dee Brown graduating and Brad Underwood being hired. 

Not true.

This year’s team finished #35 in Kenpom.

Bruce Weber after Dee Brown graduated:

2006-07: 36
2007-08: 51
2008-09: 25
2009-10: 57
2010-11: 18
2011-12: 76 (fired)

2 of the final 4 Weber teams were way better than this year, and he still was fired.

Being better than Groce doesn’t mean you keep your job.  All your showing by that stat is how bad Groce was.  Yet you supported Groce in his 5th season.  So your standards are so so so low that you have no reasonable take in this discussion.




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spark mandrill

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #187 on: April 04, 2023, 03:17:31 PM »
Now do the last four years compared to Weber's last four.

Weber got fired because half the time, he could be as good as this team that everyone complained about all year.
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spark mandrill

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #188 on: April 04, 2023, 03:19:17 PM »
Since I know you won't because it'll make you look dumb, here they are:

23: #35
22: #20
21: #4
20: #30

So, two times in five years post-Dee, Weber was better than Underwood's worst year after the rebuild.  Zero times within 10 spots of Underwood's best year.
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Dominic

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #189 on: April 04, 2023, 03:21:47 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 03:04:23 PM
And if you fire your guy and start over as soon as he builds your burger restaurant from the ground up, you're more likely to end up without a burger at all than a better burger.

John Groce was fired after a 20-15 season.

The team finished 20-13 this year.  You’re back in the same place you were 7 years ago bc nothing has been built.

Yay, he lucked into a difference making Center that made the team good.  Ron Turner lucked into a difference making QB.  Guess what?  When both those guys left the program the teams went right back into the crapper.

I mean, imagine thinking Ron Turner post Kittner should have have been allowed to keep his job forever bc he one time built up a team from the Lou Tepper regime. It’s just nonsense.

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spark mandrill

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #190 on: April 04, 2023, 03:23:05 PM »
It's almost like a team that missed the tournament and a team that made it without being on the bubble are different!

I know you being "right" depends entirely on stupid shit like pretending they're the same, but they're still not, and you're still a pedo and a moron.
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spark mandrill

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #191 on: April 04, 2023, 03:25:31 PM »
Morehead State won 22 games this year so they were better than us!
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Dominic

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #192 on: April 04, 2023, 03:27:07 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 03:19:17 PM
Since I know you won't because it'll make you look dumb, here they are:

23: #35
22: #20
21: #4
20: #30

So, two times in five years post-Dee, Weber was better than Underwood's worst year after the rebuild.  Zero times within 10 spots of Underwood's best year.

Underwood’s rebuild after Kofi will never come close to any of Weber’s best years after Dee and Deron left. 

It’s all downhill from here. 

Kofi was the program.
He ain’t never coming back.
And he’s never gonna be replicated.

I give credit Weber was able to construct a couple of top 25 teams post Dee/Deron.  And still got fired.

Underwood will never do that again here.  He can’t even keep guys he recruited for more than a couple years.  His coaching sucks.  And his GM’ing is even worse.
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spark mandrill

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #193 on: April 04, 2023, 03:27:36 PM »
I'm sure if we make the tourney again next year you will be here pretending we didn't.

Same as it ever was.  Same as it ever was.

One of these days, by blind luck, it seems likely you'll get something right - that said, it hasn't happened yet, so maybe you're just destined to be the butt of every joke from everyone?  Somebody's gotta be that guy.  The bottom of life's totem pole, the guy who eats the cracker.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 03:30:17 PM by spark mandrill »
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Dominic

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Re: who leaves
« Reply #194 on: April 04, 2023, 03:44:12 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 04, 2023, 03:27:36 PM
I'm sure if we make the tourney again next year you will be here pretending we didn't.

Same as it ever was.  Same as it ever was.

One of these days, by blind luck, it seems likely you'll get something right - that said, it hasn't happened yet, so maybe you're just destined to be the butt of every joke from everyone?  Somebody's gotta be that guy.  The bottom of life's totem pole, the guy who eats the cracker.

I just want to know what standards do you have for wanting a coach fired?

Like how bad would Underwood need to be to fire him next year?

Or how many bad seasons in a row will you tolerate before wanting to fire a coach? We already know that.  You were fine Groce missing 3 straight NCAAs bc you supported him in year 5. 

You are the Ron Turner football fan from the early 2000s.  This is a near carbon copy of where the football program was then, and the basketball program now. 

1999-2001 football years = 2020-22 basketball years (Kittner/Kofi)

2002 football team = 2023 basketball team

2003-2005 football team = 2024-2026 basketball team)

We are getting ready to go way back down. 

Underwood looks like Frank Martin at SC, except Frank got a FF there. I guess since Frank “built them up” he should have coached forever there right?
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