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Sven's team comes visiting

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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #150 on: March 08, 2023, 09:08:14 AM »
Quote from: Beach Bum on March 08, 2023, 09:03:50 AM
Take away his first 3 seasons with Billy's players. Weber missed the tourney a lot.

He missed the NCAA tournament 3 times in his 9 years. So if we keep moving the goalposts around and now are saying the basis was making the tournament, then he succeeded two-thirds of the time.

Weber got dismissed because of lack of success in the tournament.

Also, doesn't matter "whose players" he had after the first season.
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Custard

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #151 on: March 08, 2023, 09:19:51 AM »
All the best players in years 1-3 were Self’s guys. After they left Bruce tied a program record for losses in 07/08. He was 50% on making the tourney after Self’s guys were gone. It was more than just how poorly he did in the tournament those few years he managed to get there with his own guys.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #152 on: March 08, 2023, 09:36:59 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 08, 2023, 09:19:51 AM
All the best players in years 1-3 were Self’s guys. After they left Bruce tied a program record for losses in 07/08. He was 50% on making the tourney after Self’s guys were gone. It was more than just how poorly he did in the tournament those few years he managed to get there with his own guys.

All issues, but the main issue was not advancing past the 1st/2nd round of the tournament when they got there.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #153 on: March 08, 2023, 10:16:16 AM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 08, 2023, 08:58:44 AM
Fairly sure Weber made the tournament more than he missed it. It was the lack of tournament success that led to his demise.

Using your same logic, he had the most tournament success of pretty much any coach we've ever had in the modern era. 

But once he had to win with players he brought in, he missed the tournament more often than he made it; thus he got fired.

It wasn't about S16's.  It was about missing the tournament.  This "we demand a S16 every year" thing is fucking stupid, pure fantasy nonsense.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #154 on: March 08, 2023, 10:16:36 AM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 08, 2023, 09:36:59 AM
All issues, but the main issue was not advancing past the 1st/2nd round of the tournament when they got there.

The main issue was not advancing to the first round of the tournament.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #155 on: March 08, 2023, 10:17:47 AM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 08, 2023, 09:08:14 AM
He missed the NCAA tournament 3 times in his 9 years. So if we keep moving the goalposts around and now are saying the basis was making the tournament, then he succeeded two-thirds of the time.

Weber got dismissed because of lack of success in the tournament.

Also, doesn't matter "whose players" he had after the first season.

It's funny to watch you twist every which way trying to force the facts to fit your claim, which they decidedly do not.

If it was about making the S16 every year, they would not have allowed Weber to miss 6 in a row and keep his job.  But they did.  They fired him because once Bill Self's players graduated, he didn't make the tournament even half the time.

And even with that disaster, if he'd made the tournament and lost in the first round in Meyers' sophomore year, he'd have been retained.

Same with Groce's last season.  Make the tournament and keep your job.  Nothing to do with a S16.

Neither guy got it done.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 10:19:47 AM by spark mandrill »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #156 on: March 08, 2023, 11:37:35 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 08, 2023, 10:16:36 AM
The main issue was not advancing to the first round of the tournament.

And look how Underachiever is viewed as the Coaching Justin Fields for just making the tourney and losing the 2d game of the 1st weekend.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #157 on: March 08, 2023, 12:33:49 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 08, 2023, 11:37:35 AM
And look how Underachiever is viewed as the Coaching Justin Fields for just making the tourney and losing the 2d game of the 1st weekend.

Have you always been such a complete and utter dumbass, or did that just start when you started exclusively interacting with the biggest group of immature morons on the Illini internet?
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #158 on: March 08, 2023, 12:59:39 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 08, 2023, 10:16:36 AM
The main issue was not advancing to the first round of the tournament.

And yet Weber did that two-thirds of the time.

Where did he fall short? Advancing past the second round.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #159 on: March 08, 2023, 01:08:33 PM »
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1043583-illinois-basketball-why-its-time-to-say-goodbye-to-bruce-weber

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He seems content to finish in the middle of the conference, get an average seed in the NCAA tournament, (maybe) win a game in the tournament, and call it a season.

Regarding use of "Self's guys":

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Early on Weber was criticized for not landing the big recruits, but since 2009 he has landed nine top 100 recruits, and yet the results are the same.

Tournament success is the common factor.

Also, this 2009-2012 period was a prime example of how recruiting "stars" don't automatically equal success.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #160 on: March 08, 2023, 01:11:43 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 08, 2023, 10:16:16 AM
Using your same logic, he had the most tournament success of pretty much any coach we've ever had in the modern era. 


Because he did at the start. Then he (mostly) stopped advancing past the first round.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #161 on: March 08, 2023, 01:12:54 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 08, 2023, 12:33:49 PM
Have you always been such a complete and utter dumbass, or did that just start when you started exclusively interacting with the biggest group of immature morons on the Illini internet?

Probably a little of both.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #162 on: March 08, 2023, 02:04:54 PM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 08, 2023, 12:59:39 PM
And yet Weber did that two-thirds of the time.

Where did he fall short? Advancing past the second round.

He fell short by being unable to make the field consistently once Bill Self's players graduated.

He was fine not making the second weekend - hell, he did it six straight times and suited up for the seventh season.  That couldn't more obviously not have been the issue, as evidenced by the fact that not only did he not make it every year and keep his job, he didn't make it for more than half a decade consecutively and still kept his job.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #163 on: March 08, 2023, 02:06:15 PM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 08, 2023, 01:11:43 PM
Because he did at the start. Then he (mostly) stopped advancing past the first round.

Then he mostly stopped making the tournament.

He didn't make the sweet 16 from 2005-2006 through 2010-2011, and was still employed in 2011-2012.

He was fine missing six straight S16's, but was fired for missing three of five tournaments.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #164 on: March 08, 2023, 02:10:41 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 08, 2023, 02:04:54 PM
He fell short by being unable to make the field consistently once Bill Self's players graduated.

He was fine not making the second weekend - hell, he did it six straight times and suited up for the seventh season.  That couldn't more obviously not have been the issue, as evidenced by the fact that not only did he not make it every year and keep his job, he didn't make it for more than half a decade consecutively and still kept his job.

That doesn't change what the fans expected. Our memories of the old board seem to differ.

Short of pictures of him with farm animals, he wasn't getting fired 2-3 years after getting to the NCAA finals, regardless of what players he inherited.
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