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Sven's team comes visiting

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illiniray

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #180 on: March 08, 2023, 03:42:16 PM »
Winning 8 games with the roster Bartow had was an impressive feat. He hired Tony Yates who recruited Audie Matthews. Yates stayed on with Henson and turned around Chicago recruiting.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #181 on: March 08, 2023, 03:50:04 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 08, 2023, 03:31:03 PM
Roy Williams last 3 years at KU. Sweet 16, final 4, championship game. Hot seat?

Bartow was hired to replace John Wooden.

Try getting some facts, Nichi.

https://www.espn.com/ncb/news/2003/0409/1536529.html
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I am a former 5-star general. Or maybe it was 4-star.
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illiniray

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #182 on: March 08, 2023, 04:00:45 PM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 08, 2023, 03:50:04 PM
Try getting some facts, Nichi.

https://www.espn.com/ncb/news/2003/0409/1536529.html

Did you not read your link, or have trouble with comprehension? The AD he clashed with was fired. That situation was not a factor. He picked his alma mater UNC over KU. 


 "Sources close to Williams said Wednesday that he again is torn and hasn't made up his mind whether to remain in Lawrence. Bohl's ouster might not factor in his decision; Williams either will go home to North Carolina or stay where he has enjoyed building a legacy after reaching back-to-back Final Fours and four in his 15 years as coach."

"Sources within the Carolina program expect Williams to take the job if offered and said they would be upset if he rejected it a second time. They said Williams feels responsible for the present state of the program after he stayed at Kansas. But Carolina's program is on the verge of returning to the NCAA Tournament and should be ranked in the top 10 next season, so he could be walking back into a Final Four situation instead of rebuilding, which he would have been had he succeeded Bill Guthridge in Chapel Hill three years ago."
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 04:04:39 PM by illiniray »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #183 on: March 08, 2023, 04:08:53 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 08, 2023, 04:00:45 PM
Did you not read your link, or have trouble with comprehension?

Are these rhetorical questions?
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illiniray

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #184 on: March 08, 2023, 04:13:21 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 08, 2023, 04:08:53 PM
Are these rhetorical questions?

That was an either / or question.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #185 on: March 08, 2023, 04:20:48 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 08, 2023, 04:00:45 PM
Did you not read your link, or have trouble with comprehension? The AD he clashed with was fired. That situation was not a factor. He picked his alma mater UNC over KU. 


 "Sources close to Williams said Wednesday that he again is torn and hasn't made up his mind whether to remain in Lawrence. Bohl's ouster might not factor in his decision; Williams either will go home to North Carolina or stay where he has enjoyed building a legacy after reaching back-to-back Final Fours and four in his 15 years as coach."

"Sources within the Carolina program expect Williams to take the job if offered and said they would be upset if he rejected it a second time. They said Williams feels responsible for the present state of the program after he stayed at Kansas. But Carolina's program is on the verge of returning to the NCAA Tournament and should be ranked in the top 10 next season, so he could be walking back into a Final Four situation instead of rebuilding, which he would have been had he succeeded Bill Guthridge in Chapel Hill three years ago."

The AD was fired because it was obvious Williams wasn't staying. Try not to be incredibly dense.
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I am a former 5-star general. Or maybe it was 4-star.
Nichi claims a guard with a 1.3 assist-to-TO ratio is a good passer.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #186 on: March 08, 2023, 04:23:44 PM »
The larger point here, which Nichi is missing (no surprise), is that coaches leave many times for reasons other than getting fired. So in a way, Nichi is making my argument for me, even if he is too dumb to realize it.

I feel like I typed this almost word for word a page or two ago. But some horses can't figure out how to drink.
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I am a former 5-star general. Or maybe it was 4-star.
Nichi claims a guard with a 1.3 assist-to-TO ratio is a good passer.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #187 on: March 08, 2023, 04:32:39 PM »
Here, I'll try to help out the dense:

https://www.espn.com/ncb/ncaatourney03/news/2003/0408/1535695.html

Quote
Williams has an icy relationship with Bohl and is strongly considering leaving Kansas if the AD isn't either fired or asked to resign, the Star's source said. It has been widely confirmed through sources within the athletic department that Bohl has strained relationships with both Williams and football coach Mark Mangino.
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I am a former 5-star general. Or maybe it was 4-star.
Nichi claims a guard with a 1.3 assist-to-TO ratio is a good passer.
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illiniray

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #188 on: March 08, 2023, 06:10:17 PM »
This is almost funny. Our resident kook #2 claimed Williams left KU because he had problems with the AD. Yet that AD was fired and Williams left anyway.

He  posts this:

"The AD was fired because it was obvious Williams wasn't staying. Try not to be incredibly dense."

and this:

"Williams has an icy relationship with Bohl and is strongly considering leaving Kansas if the AD isn't either fired or asked to resign ..."
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illiniray

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #189 on: March 08, 2023, 06:35:47 PM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 08, 2023, 04:23:44 PM
The larger point here, which Nichi is missing (no surprise), is that coaches leave many times for reasons other than getting fired. So in a way, Nichi is making my argument for me, even if he is too dumb to realize it.

I feel like I typed this almost word for word a page or two ago. But some horses can't figure out how to drink.

What an utterly profound insight. Coaches actually leave for reasons other than getting canned. Also, for reasons other avoiding the hot seat.

Gene Bartow, Lon Kruger, and Bill Self left Illinois because they received extremely attractive job offers and our AD's were unwilling or unable to do enough to retain them. Their seats at the time were not were not even remotely warm. Expectations were not excessively high. I will say I am confident they found recruiting more challenging than they expected, whether they admitted publicly or not.
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“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #190 on: March 08, 2023, 10:37:43 PM »
YOU are the one who keeps referring to coaches not being on the hot seat. Again, you are essentially making my point and still not realizing it when you echo things like "Coaches don't always get fired." Which I said four pages ago.

And in typically classic Nichi fashion, you are pivoting off your own statement that YOU created.

Again, great job, Nichi.

In regard to the Williams thing: He had already either agreed to the UNC job before the AD was fired, or he was told that if he turned it down a second time, it wouldn't be offered again. So the AD firing didn't make him stay at Kansas, but the conflicts certainly figured into the decision to leave.

I know this is too complex for you to understand.

Now, this is the part where you make up something that was never said, then essentially start using it to make my argument. Then you will make yourself look ridiculous by celebrating your great "counterpoint."
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I am a former 5-star general. Or maybe it was 4-star.
Nichi claims a guard with a 1.3 assist-to-TO ratio is a good passer.
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illiniray

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #191 on: March 08, 2023, 11:11:40 PM »
Granted I blocked IVMP, and was only following half a conversation.

I just had the distinct impression IVMP said Weber and Groce were fired for failing to reach the sweet 16 consistently. He even seemed to imply Henson, Kruger and Self left Illinois because the pressure to make the sweet 16 was too much. He then brought up the fact that Roy Williams left KU for UNC to support his nonsense.

The truth is Kruger, Self, and Williams; like Bartow, left in good standing and good shape for what they saw as a better opportunity.

Henson's decision to retire is instructive. I can't go into too much detail right now. Henson inherited a mess that included recruiting sanctions for violations committed 4 to 5 years earlier. He and Tony Yates rebuilt the program by cultivating relationships with influential high school coaches like Roy Condotti, Don Pittman, Sonny Cox, Bob Hambric, Benny Lewis, and others. That model served him well, until it didn't. By the end of the 1980s, the recruiting landscape was changing. High school coaches were losing control over recruiting to summer league coaches and street agents.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 07:10:16 AM by illiniray »
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illiniray

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #192 on: March 09, 2023, 07:35:40 AM »
The old model of mainly recruiting IL and going out of state for an occasional stud has not worked for a long time. Illinois has to recruit nationally.

Another point is top 150, 4 star talent with a mix of skills is nice to have. To win big you need some 5 star NBA talent too, or 4 stars who outplay their rank like Deron Williams, or else a coach like Bill Self.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #193 on: March 09, 2023, 07:46:41 AM »
Note to Nichi: Self never got to a Final Four with Illinois. And he used some of Kruger's players. Funny how the dummies here ignore facts when it doesn't suit their lame-ass arguments.

Also, I like how dummies like Nichi keep pointing out that some coaches left in good standing. Um, that's the point. If they can leave before getting fired, they do. I feel like (again) this was typed almost word for word several pages ago. But I guess Nichi is still figuring out how to use a computer.

Not 1958 anymore, bud. Learn to Google. Get facts. Try not to repeat erroneous information, or to make the other person's argument.

I know this will be tough for you. But you might be able to make it happen.
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I am a former 5-star general. Or maybe it was 4-star.
Nichi claims a guard with a 1.3 assist-to-TO ratio is a good passer.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #194 on: March 09, 2023, 07:47:31 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 09, 2023, 07:35:40 AM
The old model of mainly recruiting IL and going out of state for an occasional stud has not worked for a long time. Illinois has to recruit nationally.

Another point is top 150, 4 star talent with a mix of skills is nice to have. To win big you need some 5 star NBA talent too, or 4 stars who outplay their rank like Deron Williams, or else a coach like Bill Self.

Deep (And Erroneous) Thoughts, by Nichi.
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I am a former 5-star general. Or maybe it was 4-star.
Nichi claims a guard with a 1.3 assist-to-TO ratio is a good passer.
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