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WTF is wrong with the left?

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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8475 on: November 10, 2025, 06:15:18 PM »
Quote from: Custard on November 10, 2025, 04:49:06 PM
Shame the liberals killed nuclear power.

Llberal environmental groups in Illinois agreed to legislation that allowed Exelon to receive subsidies to keep their remaining unprofitable nuclear plants running.  In exchange, they were able to create a state fund to support more solar and energy storage technology.  I think it makes sense to extend the life of those nuke plants.

Nuclear power went from "too cheap to meter" to
"too expensive to matter."  Just asked the Georgia Power ratepayers whose electric bills have gone through the roof since the long delayed and cost overrun Vogtle nuclear project was completed.
https://apnews.com/article/nuclear-power-georgia-vogtle-reactors-8fbf41a3e04c656002a6ee8203988fad

Nuclear plants cost more to build because they are huge infrastructure projects with strict design requirements that can't be half-assed.  The last nuclear project in France was 13 years late and seven times the initial cost.  The most recent nuclear plant that is now online in Finland had an initial cost estimate of 15 billion euros.  The final cost was 24 billion euros.

Base power is probably the best argument for nuclear.  We may see a few small modular units built in 15-20 years, but they will struggle to compete with cheaper alternatives.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2025, 06:19:35 PM by alum74 »
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Judge Judy

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8476 on: November 10, 2025, 06:31:59 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on November 10, 2025, 06:15:18 PM
Llberal environmental groups in Illinois agreed to legislation that allowed Exelon to receive subsidies to keep their remaining unprofitable nuclear plants running.  In exchange, they were able to create a state fund to support more solar and energy storage technology.  I think it makes sense to extend the life of those nuke plants.

Nuclear power went from "too cheap to meter" to
"too expensive to matter."  Just asked the Georgia Power ratepayers whose electric bills have gone through the roof since the long delayed and cost overrun Vogtle nuclear project was completed.
https://apnews.com/article/nuclear-power-georgia-vogtle-reactors-8fbf41a3e04c656002a6ee8203988fad

Nuclear plants cost more to build because they are huge infrastructure projects with strict design requirements that can't be half-assed.  The last nuclear project in France was 13 years late and seven times the initial cost.  The most recent nuclear plant that is now online in Finland had an initial cost estimate of 15 billion euros.  The final cost was 24 billion euros.

Base power is probably the best argument for nuclear.  We may see a few small modular units built in 15-20 years, but they will struggle to compete with cheaper alternatives.

They’ve closed down a shit ton of nuclear power plants here in IL and we have had to source most of our power/energy from other states and companies. That’s why our energy bills have been so high. They can pretty much charge whatever they want and we’re fucked having to accept their shitty rates. Yet all you see everywhere in the country now is solar farms and wind turbines. Make it make sense…
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8477 on: November 10, 2025, 07:19:54 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on November 10, 2025, 06:31:59 PM
They’ve closed down a shit ton of nuclear power plants here in IL and we have had to source most of our power/energy from other states and companies. That’s why our energy bills have been so high. They can pretty much charge whatever they want and we’re fucked having to accept their shitty rates. Yet all you see everywhere in the country now is solar farms and wind turbines. Make it make sense…

I know someone who works for Exelon at Braidwood. Nothing been said about him that hasn't already been said about Homer Simpson.
Careful what you wish for.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8478 on: November 10, 2025, 07:21:48 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on November 10, 2025, 06:31:59 PM
They’ve closed down a shit ton of nuclear power plants here in IL and we have had to source most of our power/energy from other states and companies. That’s why our energy bills have been so high. They can pretty much charge whatever they want and we’re fucked having to accept their shitty rates. Yet all you see everywhere in the country now is solar farms and wind turbines. Make it make sense…

Sorry, but nuclear power is alive and well in Illinois, with six sites and 11 reactors.  Exelon has shut down Dresden 1, Zion 1 and Zion 2.  These were older reactors that became too expensive to operate and maintain.  I think the Dresden unit came online in 1960.

It's pretty obvious that you know nothing about about how the regional power grids work.  Illinois is a net exporter of electricity; the state generates more power than it consumes.  This is largely due to its status as a top producer of nuclear power and a major generator of wind energy. 
https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.php?sid=IL#:~:text=9%2C10,23

On any given day, 50-80% of the electricity produced and used in Illinois comes from nuclear energy.  Though they have been increasing, Illinois' electricity rates are generally below the national average and among the lowest in the Midwest.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8479 on: November 10, 2025, 07:58:35 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on November 10, 2025, 05:47:52 PM
Fetterman's region of the state has a LOT of people on the ACA subsidies. When the GOP fucks around and doesn't extend them, I will enjoy watching him explain it.

Last I heard  senators represent the whole state
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8480 on: November 10, 2025, 08:39:34 PM »
Quote from: Custard on November 10, 2025, 03:15:41 PM
Glaciers have been melting for 15,000+ years. They melt relatively faster when they get smaller. Champaign, Illinois used to be under a mile of ice. Even if humans had zero impact on the climate the idea that the climate would stay the same indefinitely is absolute lunacy.

The good old 'of course there is climate change. There has always been climate change." argument.

No one has ever argued that, without humans, the climate would stay the same indefinitely..

My understanding is we are currently in a great ice age. Within this ice age there are long periods of relative cooling with glacial expansion and long periods of relative warming with gradual glacial retreating.

During our industrial age, humans began influencing this process in a couple ways. Burning high sulfur coal, besides polluting the air and water, also caused global cooling. This was a concern at one time, but proved to be transient and was dealt with via regulation.

The bigger problem has the dumping of vast amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.by burning fossil fulls. As we all should know, CO2 is the primary long term green house gas. This has effectively triggered an acceleration of natural glacial retreating.

Every grade school kid should know this.

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8481 on: November 10, 2025, 10:06:27 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on November 10, 2025, 02:46:06 PM
You saying he switches parties?

He might as well.
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8482 on: November 10, 2025, 10:08:08 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on November 10, 2025, 06:31:59 PM
They’ve closed down a shit ton of nuclear power plants here in IL and we have had to source most of our power/energy from other states and companies. That’s why our energy bills have been so high. They can pretty much charge whatever they want and we’re fucked having to accept their shitty rates. Yet all you see everywhere in the country now is solar farms and wind turbines. Make it make sense…

I say we get Pritzker on a bicycle and make him power the state. He could used the exercise!
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Judge Judy

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8483 on: November 10, 2025, 10:31:24 PM »
Quote from: Montez Sweat on November 10, 2025, 10:08:08 PM
I say we get Pritzker on a bicycle and make him power the state. He could used the exercise!

Sounds good to me…
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8484 on: November 10, 2025, 10:56:57 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 10, 2025, 07:58:35 PM
Last I heard  senators represent the whole state

This is true.

Nonetheless, he ran on his bonafides from the region he came from, and overperformed Trump in that area.
If they are pissed at him, Philadephia won't save him.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8485 on: November 11, 2025, 10:14:56 AM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on November 10, 2025, 05:46:49 PM
OK, 2 posts ago, your story was it is just sea ice melting so they are nuts for moving the town because the sea isn't going to rise.

Now your story is that the glaciers are melting of course.

Pro tip - ice melts relatively faster when it's warmer. If you don't believe me, put your bourbon in the microwave before pouring it over ice.

Sea ice seems to be a lot of the focus for those worried about ice melt. Sea levels really aren’t rising much. Land ice in the north and on Antarctica have retreated massively at times over the last 15000 years before man had any impact on the climate whatsoever.

Maybe if you guys could control your fires out there (which have completely undone all your overwrought carbon control measures this century) and get other nations to stop burning dirty coal with no regulation we could slow
down the portion that humans are actually causing. Instead we’re focused  on cars that shut off at every stoplight and make the engine wear out faster. Cool.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8486 on: November 11, 2025, 11:41:40 AM »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8487 on: November 11, 2025, 12:48:46 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 11, 2025, 11:41:40 AM
https://www.semafor.com/article/11/11/2025/chinas-emissions-have-remained-flat-for-more-than-a-year-new-data-shows
Is that the summit where thousands of acres of protected Brazil rain forests were leveled to put in a 4 lane highway for all of the bigwigs to use once they got off their private jets at the airport miles away ?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8488 on: November 11, 2025, 12:53:22 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on November 11, 2025, 12:48:46 PM
Is that the summit where thousands of acres of protected Brazil rain forests were leveled to put in a 4 lane highway for all of the bigwigs to use once they got off their private jets at the airport miles away ?

That and to plant crops to sell to those who used to buy American crops.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #8489 on: November 11, 2025, 12:55:15 PM »
Quote from: Custard on November 11, 2025, 10:14:56 AM
Land ice in the north and on Antarctica have retreated massively at times over the last 15000 years before man had any impact on the climate whatsoever.

This is a good example of the "jumping to conclusions fallacy," a common tactic used by climate science deniers.  It's like arguing that murders don't happen now because people died of natural causes in the past. 

Yes, sea ice has retreated and rebounded many times during Earth's history.  Those changes were due to natural factors (e.g., variations in Earth's orbit, volcanic activity, and changes in solar output).  They also happened over thousands of years, allowing ecosystems and climate systems to adjust.

The current sea ice decline is faster, more widespread and directly linked to human-caused warming.  It's one of the clearest indications that the planet is warming beyond natural variation. The loss of reflective ice also creates a feedback loop--darker ocean water absorbs more heat, which accelerates warming.

Everything we've learned about past climate change warns us that our planet will react strongly to all the extra heat we're adding. 
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