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WTF is wrong with the left?

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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4125 on: December 26, 2023, 06:38:53 PM »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4126 on: December 26, 2023, 06:40:21 PM »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4127 on: December 26, 2023, 08:26:57 PM »
Quote from: Mn on December 26, 2023, 06:40:21 PM
The laws need to be revamped comes nowhere close to justify what is, and has been, allowed to happen.

Like this:

83% of nondetained immigrants with completed or pending removal cases attended all of their hearings.

96% of nondetained immigrants represented by a lawyer attended all of their hearings.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/news/11-years-government-data-reveal-immigrants-do-show-court

'In 2018, the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per  native-born Americans."
https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

'Relative to undocumented immigrants, U.S.-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes."
https://www.ojp.gov/library/publications/comparing-crime-rates-between-undocumented-immigrants-legal-immigrants-and

"Contrary to public perception, we observe considerably lower felony arrest rates among undocumented immigrants compared to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens and find no evidence that undocumented criminality has increased in recent years. Our findings help us understand why the most aggressive immigrant removal programs have not delivered on their crime reduction promises and are unlikely to do so in the future."
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4128 on: December 26, 2023, 09:03:50 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 26, 2023, 08:26:57 PM
Like this:

83% of nondetained immigrants with completed or pending removal cases attended all of their hearings.

96% of nondetained immigrants represented by a lawyer attended all of their hearings.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/news/11-years-government-data-reveal-immigrants-do-show-court

'In 2018, the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per  native-born Americans."
https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

'Relative to undocumented immigrants, U.S.-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes."
https://www.ojp.gov/library/publications/comparing-crime-rates-between-undocumented-immigrants-legal-immigrants-and

"Contrary to public perception, we observe considerably lower felony arrest rates among undocumented immigrants compared to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens and find no evidence that undocumented criminality has increased in recent years. Our findings help us understand why the most aggressive immigrant removal programs have not delivered on their crime reduction promises and are unlikely to do so in the future."
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
What does any of that have to do with what is, and has been, going on at the border ?
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4129 on: December 26, 2023, 09:10:40 PM »
It’s definitely way harder to catch criminals who are undocumented, new to an area, have no prints in the system, no large local network that knows of their comings and goings…but, STATISTICS!

Also…What Mn asked.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4130 on: December 26, 2023, 09:16:00 PM »
Quote from: Illinifan5775 on December 26, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
All the blame can't be put on Biden, though he's awfully effing slow/non-existent to do anything about it. Basically waving his arms, it's OK to come on in when he became Prez.
Over 40 years of complaining about the border situation and nothing gets done. Hasn't mattered if GOP or Dems in the White House or Senate or House, nothing gets done, just talk, nothing accomplished. But you and I have to pay for this shit.

Once again - it is not “just talk”. “Just talk” implies they are incapable of doing anything. The reality is THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING

And no - you are not “paying for this shit”. You are *profiting* from lower consumer prices on the entire agricultural stack, all the way up to restaurant prices lowered via lower wage costs.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4131 on: December 26, 2023, 09:17:17 PM »
Quote from: Mn on December 26, 2023, 06:24:36 PM
The laws need to be revamped comes nowhere close to justify what is, and has been, allowed to happen.

I keep trying to figure out how Grandpa Simpson in Minnesota has come to conclude he has any idea what is actually happening

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4132 on: December 26, 2023, 10:46:10 PM »
Quote from: Custard on December 26, 2023, 09:10:40 PM
It’s definitely way harder to catch criminals who are undocumented, new to an area, have no prints in the system, no large local network that knows of their comings and goings…but, STATISTICS!

Also…What Mn asked.

You obviously didn't read the articles and don't have much idea what is going on.

This discussion started with an inference that illegals are commiting violent crimes at a high rate. The last article directly addresses the shortcomings of statistics.

Another big complaint about what is going at the border is catch and release and false claims that asylum seekers vanish and never show up for hearings.

The nonsense that they are taking American jobs has been addressed.

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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4133 on: December 26, 2023, 11:25:51 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on December 26, 2023, 09:16:00 PM
Once again - it is not “just talk”. “Just talk” implies they are incapable of doing anything. The reality is THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING

And no - you are not “paying for this shit”. You are *profiting* from lower consumer prices on the entire agricultural stack, all the way up to restaurant prices lowered via lower wage costs.

Weird. I get labeled a conspiracy theorist when I insist the only rational explanation for the border situation is that the people in charge obviously want it.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4134 on: December 26, 2023, 11:40:40 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 26, 2023, 10:46:10 PM
You obviously didn't read the articles and don't have much idea what is going on.

This discussion started with an inference that illegals are commiting violent crimes at a high rate. The last article directly addresses the shortcomings of statistics.

Another big complaint about what is going at the border is catch and release and false claims that asylum seekers vanish and never show up for hearings.

The nonsense that they are taking American jobs has been addressed.

I’m obviously discussing the very obvious flaws in the crime statistics for undocumented people. None of which were addressed in the obviously flawed studies that had lots of needlessly large words to disguise the fact that they were obviously flawed. Probably funded by large corporations wanting to keep the flow of cheap labor coming.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4135 on: December 27, 2023, 01:12:06 AM »
So all you got is a few illegals that committed crimes. You generalize that they all must be criminals, but have no evidence other than a lack of evidence? Brilliant reasoning.
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4136 on: December 27, 2023, 01:16:55 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 27, 2023, 01:12:06 AM
So all you got is a few illegals that committed crimes. You generalize that they all must be criminals, but have no evidence other than a lack of evidence? Brilliant reasoning.

Not following immigration rules automatically makes them 100% criminals

Are you fucking retarded?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4137 on: December 27, 2023, 01:22:44 AM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on December 27, 2023, 01:16:55 AM
Not following immigration rules automatically makes them 100% criminals

Are you fucking retarded?

Doesn't it depend if they are seeking amnesty or not? Laws are a lot looser if they seek amnesty, apparently.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4138 on: December 27, 2023, 06:06:36 AM »
The original smokescreen was that these are all, as in every last one, asylum seekers. Then, to offer a veneer of legitamacy to the border situation, the VP was named the border czar, lol, to address the root causes of the violence and persecution the migrants were facing in their home countries.
Apparently Ray and maybe somebody in a neighboring town believe that this is still the situation.

And don't forget that some migrants are coming here due to climate change.
If they can't find room at the Portage Park encampment, there's nothing like a nice 20 degree day on Lower Wacker to bring folks north.

They're here for jobs and the perceived benefits of living in the U.S., and most aren't murderers and rapists, comes nowhere close to justify the handling of border situation.
Just don't be said to be whipping any Haitians on their way in.



« Last Edit: December 27, 2023, 06:08:11 AM by Mn »
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #4139 on: December 27, 2023, 11:23:12 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 27, 2023, 01:12:06 AM
So all you got is a few illegals that committed crimes. You generalize that they all must be criminals, but have no evidence other than a lack of evidence? Brilliant reasoning.

I didn’t even say they all must be criminals. I’m just not buying statistics that don’t even factor in the fact that they are much harder to track down and hold accountable for the crimes they do commit.
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