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WTF is wrong with the left?

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2280 on: April 25, 2022, 09:04:29 AM »
Leave it to Robb to think everything he learned in macroeconomics is gospel, and not general theory.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 09:06:20 AM by Tempo34 »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2281 on: April 25, 2022, 10:55:14 AM »
Quote from: Mn on April 25, 2022, 08:28:52 AM
And Durham will offer evidence and witnesses in an effort to show that "Today, there is still no definitive finding on what caused the pinging." is no longer true.
I think testimony in London helped Durham also.

Did you read the comments ?

No, I have not. What are the good ones?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2282 on: April 25, 2022, 11:15:07 AM »
Quote from: Mn on April 25, 2022, 08:28:52 AM
And Durham will offer evidence and witnesses in an effort to show that "Today, there is still no definitive finding on what caused the pinging." is no longer true.
I think testimony in London helped Durham also.

Did you read the comments ?

I read the comments. Some typical The Nation anti-Clinton stuff and some typical The Nation reactionary posts, with links, to articles claiming collusion occured (for which there is evidence) and claiming Alfa Bank, Trump and Durham have been sliming internet experts.

We also know that the genesis of the FBI investigation of the Trump Campaign came from the DePaul grifter talking in a bar about setting up meetings with the Trump Campaign and the Soviets and that the Steele Dossier was not relied upon.

I have seen nothing updated regarding the "source" of the pings.

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2283 on: April 25, 2022, 11:35:13 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 25, 2022, 11:15:07 AM

I have seen nothing updated regarding the "source" of the pings.


Go back to the CIA assessment and the comments of Antonakakis.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2284 on: April 25, 2022, 12:25:48 PM »
Quote from: Mn on April 25, 2022, 11:35:13 AM
Go back to the CIA assessment and the comments of Antonakakis.

Read a Federalist artcile on it:

There is nothing to suggest Antonakakis knew at the time what Joffe and Sussmann had in mind and frankly the emails could make him a sympathetic character, innocently sucked into a scandal because he trusted colleagues who told him the data suggested a Trump-Russian connection that posed a national security concern. Antonakakis did his job after all, reviewing the data and apparently rejecting the theory, and academics aren’t responsible for what their peers write, but still, where is Antonakakis’ outrage?
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2285 on: April 25, 2022, 12:57:18 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 25, 2022, 12:25:48 PM
Read a Federalist artcile on it:

There is nothing to suggest Antonakakis knew at the time what Joffe and Sussmann had in mind and frankly the emails could make him a sympathetic character, innocently sucked into a scandal because he trusted colleagues who told him the data suggested a Trump-Russian connection that posed a national security concern. Antonakakis did his job after all, reviewing the data and apparently rejecting the theory, and academics aren’t responsible for what their peers write, but still, where is Antonakakis’ outrage?
Link ?
Is it dated a while ago ?
Nonetheless, Antonakakis may have been legally looking for valid data and asked also to review the Joffe work. I haven't seen where he has been granted any immunity, but if he did nothing wrong he shouldn't need any and may be called as a witness.
David Dagon has been granted immunity tho.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2286 on: April 25, 2022, 01:34:04 PM »
Quote from: Mn on April 25, 2022, 12:57:18 PM
Link ?
Is it dated a while ago ?
Nonetheless, Antonakakis may have been legally looking for valid data and asked also to review the Joffe work. I haven't seen where he has been granted any immunity, but if he did nothing wrong he shouldn't need any and may be called as a witness.
David Dagon has been granted immunity tho.

From last month...

https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/09/exclusive-researcher-behind-trump-alfa-bank-story-tried-to-furiously-fight-off-special-counsel-investigation/

The article notes that the indictment is about lying if there was a client versus the "merits" of the underlying background issue. As a result, why would this guy need to be a witness unless he was told the Clinton campaign was behind the claims? That could be outside the scope of his knowledge. He is, per the article, pissed that he is being brought up and his look at the white paper scrutinized and, as the article notes, that is not among the legal issues raised against Sussman.

We will see how much the judge reins in, or has to rein in, Durham here when/if this case goes to trial.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2287 on: April 25, 2022, 01:47:44 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 25, 2022, 01:34:04 PM
From last month...

https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/09/exclusive-researcher-behind-trump-alfa-bank-story-tried-to-furiously-fight-off-special-counsel-investigation/

The article notes that the indictment is about lying if there was a client versus the "merits" of the underlying background issue. As a result, why would this guy need to be a witness unless he was told the Clinton campaign was behind the claims? That could be outside the scope of his knowledge. He is, per the article, pissed that he is being brought up and his look at the white paper scrutinized and, as the article notes, that is not among the legal issues raised against Sussman.

We will see how much the judge reins in, or has to rein in, Durham here when/if this case goes to trial.
I think Antonakakis thought Durham allegations referred only to the Alfa Bank hoax. I think he now understands that the Yotaphone data is also being included.
It's my understanding that Antonakakis was only involved with Alfa Bank data, but this stuff isn't always easy to follow with the way you lawyers write stuff. Lol.

Margot Cleveland's Twitter has info/perspective on today's court rulings.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2288 on: April 25, 2022, 02:18:18 PM »
Durham's allegations only pertain to the Alfa Bank investigation that you call a hoax. If Durham thinks it was a hoax, he could have charged Sussman with providing false information to the FBI.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 02:37:43 PM by illiniray »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2289 on: April 25, 2022, 02:57:33 PM »
I think they picked Sussman to tip off the FBI because of his personal relationship with Baker. That seems fairly obvious. Also, Baker obviously knew Sussman had been working with political clients who were digging up dirt on Trump. So Sussman reassures Baker he was not acting "on behalf of a client or company,"  that he was "coming on [his] own"  "to help the Bureau."

Durham is saying that amounted to a material misrepresentation.  That Durham was actually acting on behalf of clients, specifically Rodney Joffe and the Hillary Clinton campaign.     

It's not complicated. 

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2290 on: April 25, 2022, 03:01:53 PM »
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Because FOX News told me so…

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2291 on: April 25, 2022, 03:06:54 PM »
Quote from: Mn on April 25, 2022, 01:47:44 PM
I think Antonakakis thought Durham allegations referred only to the Alfa Bank hoax. I think he now understands that the Yotaphone data is also being included.
It's my understanding that Antonakakis was only involved with Alfa Bank data, but this stuff isn't always easy to follow with the way you lawyers write stuff. Lol.

Margot Cleveland's Twitter has info/perspective on today's court rulings.

From the one motion in limine ruling in that Twitter feed, the judge ruled (at this time), Durham may introduce evidence as to "how" the alleged "lie" caused the FBI's investigation to proceed differently than it would have if the truth was told upfront. (Basically showing that the lie was not "innocent" and had some ramifications in how the FBI responded.) Alfa Bank and CIA reps not allowed to testifiy. Seems like the judge still has a few evidentiary motions to consider at this point.

Any testimony about Sussman's knowledge of the accuracy of the info, though, could show that Sussman lied to the FBI because he, purportedly, knew the data did not prove there were communications- which makes sense. Such testimony could lead to opening the door about evidence of the accuracy of the information (and Sussman's knowledge thereof), but the judge ruled the trial is not going to focus on whether the information was accurate or not. 

It sounds like Sussman has argued that he is not conceding that there were no communications between Alfa Bank and Trump (Durham's position), but that the information he had at the time may not prove that those communications occured. Sounds like the judge is not going to allow him to make that argument at trial without allowing Durham to offer evidence as to what Sussman knew (or should have known) at the time and whether his knowledge that the info was BS contributed to his lying to the FBI on the client issue - makes sense. This is where the GA Tech guy comes in I am guessing. From The Federalist article, it sounds like, as an expert, he knew the data he was given could not establish that communications occurred. But he was specifically not asked to look at it as an "expert." In response to that he said sure, superficially, it may look like that data could support an allegation that communications occured. 
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2292 on: April 25, 2022, 03:18:02 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 25, 2022, 03:06:54 PM
From the one motion in limine ruling in that Twitter feed, the judge ruled (at this time), Durham may introduce evidence as to "how" the alleged "lie" caused the FBI's investigation to proceed differently than it would have if the truth was told upfront. (Basically showing that the lie was not "innocent" and had some ramifications in how the FBI responded.) Alfa Bank and CIA reps not allowed to testifiy. Seems like the judge still has a few evidentiary motions to consider at this point.

Any testimony about Sussman's knowledge of the accuracy of the info, though, could show that Sussman lied to the FBI because he, purportedly, knew the data did not prove there were communications- which makes sense. Such testimony could lead to opening the door about evidence of the accuracy of the information (and Sussman's knowledge thereof), but the judge ruled the trial is not going to focus on whether the information was accurate or not. 

It sounds like Sussman has argued that he is not conceding that there were no communications between Alfa Bank and Trump (Durham's position), but that the information he had at the time may not prove that those communications occured. Sounds like the judge is not going to allow him to make that argument at trial without allowing Durham to offer evidence as to what Sussman knew (or should have known) at the time and whether his knowledge that the info was BS contributed to his lying to the FBI on the client issue - makes sense. This is where the GA Tech guy comes in I am guessing. From The Federalist article, it sounds like, as an expert, he knew the data he was given could not establish that communications occurred. But he was specifically not asked to look at it as an "expert." In response to that he said sure, superficially, it may look like that data could support an allegation that communications occured. 

That's easier to understand than judge talk.
I wonder if this even gets to trial tho.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2293 on: April 25, 2022, 03:27:33 PM »
Quote from: Mn on April 25, 2022, 03:18:02 PM
That's easier to understand than judge talk.
I wonder if this even gets to trial tho.

All depends on what deal they offer him. Plus, you know Durham wants a show trial to justify the $$ spent to catch a guy who lied about who his client was.

What I do not understand is why Sussman gave the white paper, etc. to the FBI. GA Tech guy allegedly tells him the data does not prove shit, but yeah, you may pull the wool over a journalist, or a tech person, who is not a tech expert like me (meaning GA Tech guy). Sussman arguably knew that the data was "not conclusive" as to this specific point.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2294 on: April 25, 2022, 03:35:33 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 25, 2022, 03:27:33 PM
All depends on what deal they offer him. Plus, you know Durham wants a show trial to justify the $$ spent to catch a guy who lied about who his client was.

What I do not understand is why Sussman gave the white paper, etc. to the FBI. GA Tech guy allegedly tells him the data does not prove shit, but yeah, you may pull the wool over a journalist, or a tech person, who is not a tech expert like me (meaning GA Tech guy). Sussman arguably knew that the data was "not conclusive" as to this specific point.
I would have to look into it, and I ain't going to. But I think Antonakakis may have told that to Joffe ? In which case, what did Joffe tell Sussman ?
Antonakakis, Dagon or Joffe may have the answer.
There may be more indictments down the road tho.
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