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WTF is wrong with the left?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2145 on: March 10, 2022, 12:00:35 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 09, 2022, 11:58:02 PM
It’s a lot. Try and read it if you can.

https://fair.org/home/calling-russias-attack-unprovoked-lets-us-off-the-hook/

Their  mischaracterization of the Maidan Revolution is typically grotesque.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 12:02:20 PM by illiniray »
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2146 on: March 10, 2022, 12:05:39 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 10, 2022, 11:23:12 AM
I don’t feel any empathy either but I wish more people had a better understanding of the history and development of this situation. I do feel bad for the Russian and Ukrainian people who don’t support this and whose lives are being greatly impacted/taken.

Putin is the wildcard in this thing.   He believes he can do a lot of things.   

But he misjudged the Ukrainian people.   He didn't expect the Ukrainians to fight and didn't expect the Ukrainians to support their government.

I think Russia and Ukraine could have found a diplomatic solution, very similar to Finland’s relationship with Russia.  Ukraine joins the EU while agreeing not to join NATO. 

The problem is Putin (a Stalin wannabe) wants much more; the re-establishment of the Iron Curtain dividing Europe. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 12:08:03 PM by alum74 »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2147 on: March 10, 2022, 12:46:43 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 10, 2022, 11:45:11 AM
Why should I care what a xenophobic white nationalist  organization is thinking? I am guessing they sympathize with Russian ethno-nationalism?

Are they the same socialists calling for the US to exit NATO?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2148 on: March 10, 2022, 12:51:44 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 10, 2022, 11:23:12 AM
I don’t feel any empathy either but I wish more people had a better understanding of the history and development of this situation. I do feel bad for the Russian and Ukrainian people who don’t support this and whose lives are being greatly impacted/taken.

That it took the Soviets 50 years after WWII to leave their Eastern European neighbors and now they want to take back over?
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2149 on: March 10, 2022, 01:16:40 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 10, 2022, 12:00:35 PM
Their  mischaracterization of the Maidan Revolution is typically grotesque.

What was it like when you were there?
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2150 on: March 10, 2022, 01:42:11 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on March 10, 2022, 12:05:39 PM
Putin is the wildcard in this thing.   He believes he can do a lot of things.

The problem is Putin (a Stalin wannabe) wants much more; the re-establishment of the Iron Curtain dividing Europe.

I mean, maybe that’s what he wants, but even he has to know that simply isn’t feasible. It’s interesting all the media outlets and folks that purport to know what Putin is thinking.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2151 on: March 10, 2022, 01:54:33 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 10, 2022, 01:42:11 PM
I mean, maybe that’s what he wants, but even he has to know that simply isn’t feasible. It’s interesting all the media outlets and folks that purport to know what Putin is thinking.

He can pick them off one at time. He knows no one has the stomach to fight him. He also has 5th columns in Europe and in the US.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2152 on: March 10, 2022, 01:58:06 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 10, 2022, 01:54:33 PM
He can pick them off one at time. He knows no one has the stomach to fight him. He also has 5th columns in Europe and in the US.

The Ukrainians are fighting him with western arms. Most of the civilized world is fighting him non-militarily, for the moment. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2153 on: March 10, 2022, 02:01:32 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 10, 2022, 01:54:33 PM
He can pick them off one at time. He knows no one has the stomach to fight him. He also has 5th columns in Europe and in the US.
His 18 year old soldiers might not believe him next time they're told they're going in to liberate a country, and his generals might not like hearing they'll be charged with war crimes.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2154 on: March 10, 2022, 02:24:13 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 10, 2022, 01:58:06 PM
The Ukrainians are fighting him with western arms. Most of the civilized world is fighting him non-militarily, for the moment. 🤷🏻‍♂️

He's going to take over Ukraine eventually (and it will devolve into guerilla warfare). Putin is not going to just invade one country after another immediately. It will be a long process.

Yes, most of the world is for the moment. But the complaining about gas prices will not stop. Lot of QAnon97s out there and there is money to be made.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2155 on: March 10, 2022, 02:25:21 PM »
Quote from: Mn on March 10, 2022, 02:01:32 PM
His 18 year old soldiers might not believe him next time they're told they're going in to liberate a country, and his generals might not like hearing they'll be charged with war crimes.

Neither of those will stop them. The absolute destruction of what is left of the Soviet economy may though.
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fucking

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2156 on: March 10, 2022, 02:48:50 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 10, 2022, 01:54:33 PM
He also has 5th columns in Europe and in the US.
You don't even need to leave this website to find them.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2157 on: March 10, 2022, 02:51:50 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 10, 2022, 01:42:11 PM
I mean, maybe that’s what he wants, but even he has to know that simply isn’t feasible. It’s interesting all the media outlets and folks that purport to know what Putin is thinking.

You can bet Russia’s neighbors are not having a nice debate over Putin’s motives. 

Here’s how a few are responding.  Moldova and Georgia have both submitted emergency applications for EU membership since the invasion...Kosovo’s pushing its already submitted apps for EU and NATO...Finland is actively considering NATO.
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fucking

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2158 on: March 10, 2022, 02:52:17 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 10, 2022, 01:42:11 PM
It’s interesting all the media outlets and folks that purport to know what Putin is thinking.
Masha Gessen and Julia Ioffe have demonstrated, for years, a fairly keen insight.

Your perpetual relativism is noted.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #2159 on: March 10, 2022, 02:59:38 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 10, 2022, 01:16:40 PM
What was it like when you were there?

First, it is cute that a far right wing organization joins with the hard left (Jacobins) in complaining that right wing Ukrainians were part (10%?) of the opposition that threw Yanukovych out of office.

I didn't have to be there to know that Yanukovych responded to Euromaidan protests  by assuming dictatorial powers. He jailed an opposition leader on fake charges, suspended civil liberties, attacked civilians, and  effectively resigned by fleeing the country to avoid accountability.
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