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WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2835 on: January 20, 2025, 09:22:32 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 20, 2025, 09:18:39 PM
That's why the person might not want to accept a pardon in a normal world.
Unless they're guilty.,
Biden DOJ says it's a confession of guilt.

In what case?

In the case of Hunter Biden, yes.

 You are not going to persuade me that accepting s preemptive pardon is a confession. What do exactly do they confess to? 

“The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense,” Biden said in a statement. “Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country.”
« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 09:38:52 PM by illiniray »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2836 on: January 20, 2025, 09:45:55 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 20, 2025, 09:22:32 PM
In what case?

In the case of Hunter Biden, yes.

 You are not going to persuade me that accepting s preemptive pardon is a confession. What do exactly do they confess to? 
On Dec 11 a US Attorney in the US District Court in DC arguing for the Government said, citing a SCOTUS decision, accepting a pardon is a confession of guilt.

From Burdick v US
"A pardon is an act of grace, proceeding from the power entrusted with the execution of the laws, which exempts the individual on whom it is bestowed from the punishment the law inflicts for a crime he has committed."

But if you don't want it to apply to the Bidens or others, that's up to you.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 09:47:49 PM by No one in Mn »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2837 on: January 20, 2025, 10:28:32 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 20, 2025, 09:45:55 PM
On Dec 11 a US Attorney in the US District Court in DC arguing for the Government said, citing a SCOTUS decision, accepting a pardon is a confession of guilt.

From Burdick v US
"A pardon is an act of grace, proceeding from the power entrusted with the execution of the laws, which exempts the individual on whom it is bestowed from the punishment the law inflicts for a crime he has committed."

But if you don't want it to apply to the Bidens or others, that's up to you.


Quote
"Although the Supreme Court's opinion stated that a pardon carries "an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it,"[2] this was part of the Court's dictum for the case.[4] Whether the acceptance of a pardon constitutes an admission of guilt by the recipient is disputed. In Lorance v. Commandant, USDB (2021) the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that "there is no confession and Lorance does not otherwise lose his right to petition for habeas corpus relief for his court-martial conviction and sentence. The case was remanded for further action not inconsistent with the court’s opinion

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States

The dictum means asides that are non-binding / do not set a precedent.

Quote
A lower-court judge in Kansas had concluded the 2019 pardon, opens new tab did constitute a confession, citing the 1915 U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Burdick v. United States that stated "a pardon carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it.

But Senior U.S. Circuit Judge David Ebel declined to adopt that "draconian" reading of Burdick, saying the statement was an aside, or dicta, in the court's overall holding on the legal effect of someone's unaccepted pardon.

https://archive.li/2025.01.21-003422/https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/ex-soldiers-acceptance-trump-pardon-didnt-constitute-confession-guilt-court-2021-09-23/

So, I was wrong earlier. It does not impute guilt even in Hunter's case.

Where else can [you] find quality dialog like this?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 12:18:01 AM by illiniray »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2838 on: January 20, 2025, 10:31:42 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 20, 2025, 10:28:32 PM
Where else can find quality dialog like this?

I was wondering this as well.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2839 on: January 20, 2025, 10:58:58 PM »
Hoping this guy does something productive the next 4 years like forcing Illinois to bring back Chief Illiniwek... the First Peoples lost, so they can suck it.
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Custard

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2840 on: January 20, 2025, 11:43:44 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on January 20, 2025, 10:58:58 PM
Hoping this guy does something productive the next 4 years like forcing Illinois to bring back Chief Illiniwek... the First Peoples lost, so they can suck it.

Hear hear!
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2841 on: January 21, 2025, 12:20:08 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on January 20, 2025, 10:58:58 PM
Hoping this guy does something productive the next 4 years like forcing Illinois to bring back Chief Illiniwek... the First Peoples lost, so they can suck it.

The ones that oppose the Chief are all urbanized and shouldn't have a say.
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Custard

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2842 on: January 21, 2025, 12:37:51 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 21, 2025, 12:20:08 AM
The ones that oppose the Chief are all urbanized and shouldn't have a say.

Well we know the extinct Illiniwek tribe (thanks, Iroquois!) can’t oppose the Chief, so thank goodness for the white people like Kaufman that are offended on their behalf.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2843 on: January 21, 2025, 06:59:00 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 20, 2025, 10:28:32 PM

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States

The dictum means asides that are non-binding / do not set a precedent.

https://archive.li/2025.01.21-003422/https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/ex-soldiers-acceptance-trump-pardon-didnt-constitute-confession-guilt-court-2021-09-23/

So, I was wrong earlier. It does not impute guilt even in Hunter's case.

Where else can [you] find quality dialog like this?
Hunter was convicted in one case and filed a guilty plea in the other. Say what you want about his accepting of a pardon not implying guilt, but he was convicted and also filed a guilty plea acknowledging guilt.

What happened in a Kansas court vs what motions were filed in a DC court by Bidens DOJ show the importance of venue.
Any charges for the Biden family members, if they had been brought, would not have been argued in a Kansas courtroom.
There's a chance they may have been brought before the same judge, and in the same DC courtroom, where the US Attorney representing the Biden DOJ argued a month ago that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=EiNY231MfEQ&feature=shared
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 07:00:46 AM by No one in Mn »
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IlliniGolf

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2844 on: January 21, 2025, 09:43:32 AM »






























« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 09:57:55 AM by IlliniGolf »
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Reacher

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2845 on: January 21, 2025, 09:50:16 AM »
It’s hilarious that Trumper don’t understand why these pardons were mostly necessary.
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Reacher

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2846 on: January 21, 2025, 09:58:17 AM »
Not sure if I posted this here or not. This guy explains Trump wonderfully.

https://x.com/maddenifico/status/1878893252721738110?s=46&t=taZJ_d5ITWr6Hq3PUZDUiQ
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IlliniGolf

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2847 on: January 21, 2025, 10:03:06 AM »
Quote from: MaybeMikeFlorio on January 21, 2025, 09:58:17 AM
Not sure if I posted this here or not. This guy explains Trump wonderfully.

https://x.com/maddenifico/status/1878893252721738110?s=46&t=taZJ_d5ITWr6Hq3PUZDUiQ

Good grief you people are obsessed…he’s not a successful businessman now ?
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2848 on: January 21, 2025, 11:02:01 AM »
Quote from: alum74 on January 20, 2025, 04:11:51 PM
Sorry Mn, you'll have to put IT back in your pants.  No mass deportations today.  If Trump's border czar wants a show, I suggest targeting the meatpacking plants in Nebraska and Iowa.

I'm all for that. Meat is far too cheap.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #2849 on: January 21, 2025, 11:05:23 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on January 20, 2025, 10:58:58 PM
Hoping this guy does something productive the next 4 years like forcing Illinois to bring back Chief Illiniwek... the First Peoples lost, so they can suck it.

Well, he started with Denali so it's not unprecedented.

I'm awaiting him renaming the Baltimore Ravens the Cleveland Browns.
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