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WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1425 on: June 01, 2024, 03:46:47 PM »
"[Smith] had been barred from testifying for the
defense in two unrelated federal cases in Manhattan.

The judges in both cases found that the defense improperly wanted Smith to interpret campaign finance law to the jury."

Gag order? Gag me.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1426 on: June 01, 2024, 04:12:20 PM »
I have questions about this and the civil fraud trial, but not the nonsense the crackpot right brings up.

On the fraudulent loans, if Trump paid them off, and the banks are happy; then where is the victim? Same as Hunter paying his back taxes with penalties.

On the current trial, Trump had an incredibly poor defense, but that was his fault. No decent lawyer will defend him. Insulting the Judge, jury, and prosecution is not a good strategy.

Trump's denial of a sexual relationship with Daniels was laughable. Then why cover up the payment?

Why not admit the relationship? Say the NDA was to protect his family.

I am kind of a shaky on the underlying crime that elevated the business fraud to a felony. Does NY law apply to a Federal election? Can Federal election law be used to support a state felony? How about state or federal tax laws? I don't have answers. Just questions. I would have gently probed those questions to try and raise reasonable doubt.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 04:14:30 PM by illiniray »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1427 on: June 01, 2024, 04:43:09 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 01, 2024, 03:46:47 PM
"[Smith] had been barred from testifying for the
defense in two unrelated federal cases in Manhattan.

The judges in both cases found that the defense improperly wanted Smith to interpret campaign finance law to the jury."

Gag order? Gag me.
Odd. It's the same jurisdiction as the 2 other cases.
What did those 2 cases involve ?

Nonetheless, the prosecution witnesses were allowed to allege campagn election law issues and the prosecution, with no chance for rebuttal, brought it up several times in their closing statement.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1428 on: June 01, 2024, 04:59:18 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 01, 2024, 04:12:20 PM
I have questions about this and the civil fraud trial, but not the nonsense the crackpot right brings up.

On the fraudulent loans, if Trump paid them off, and the banks are happy; then where is the victim? Same as Hunter paying his back taxes with penalties.

On the current trial, Trump had an incredibly poor defense, but that was his fault. No decent lawyer will defend him. Insulting the Judge, jury, and prosecution is not a good strategy.

Trump's denial of a sexual relationship with Daniels was laughable. Then why cover up the payment?

Why not admit the relationship? Say the NDA was to protect his family.

I am kind of a shaky on the underlying crime that elevated the business fraud to a felony. Does NY law apply to a Federal election? Can Federal election law be used to support a state felony? How about state or federal tax laws? I don't have answers. Just questions. I would have gently probed those questions to try and raise reasonable doubt.
Hunter would have gotten away with both the gun case and the tax case if a judge hadn't raised questions. And the Burisma tax years were allowed to expire.
Trump paid his loans off on time.
As you say, who was the victim in the Trump case ?

Stormy Daniels denied a sexual relationship too. She said her lawyer had her sign the statement..

12 jurors came to the decision that if a relationship was real then a guy wouldn't try to cover it up to protect 1st, his wife and family, 2nd his business name and last would probably be an election.
NDAs are legal.
You may not like that people can use an NDA and you are free to vote for whomever you wish.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1429 on: June 01, 2024, 05:19:20 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 01, 2024, 04:12:20 PM
I have questions about this and the civil fraud trial, but not the nonsense the crackpot right brings up.

On the fraudulent loans, if Trump paid them off, and the banks are happy; then where is the victim? Same as Hunter paying his back taxes with penalties.

On the current trial, Trump had an incredibly poor defense, but that was his fault. No decent lawyer will defend him. Insulting the Judge, jury, and prosecution is not a good strategy.

Trump's denial of a sexual relationship with Daniels was laughable. Then why cover up the payment?

Why not admit the relationship? Say the NDA was to protect his family.

I am kind of a shaky on the underlying crime that elevated the business fraud to a felony. Does NY law apply to a Federal election? Can Federal election law be used to support a state felony? How about state or federal tax laws? I don't have answers. Just questions. I would have gently probed those questions to try and raise reasonable doubt.
I have always been under the impression that Federal law supercedes State law. States do not prosecute federal law.

I've read that tax issues were never brought up, yet that was included in the jury options.

You say you're shaky on the underlying crime. Welcome to maybe 2/3 - 3/4 of the country.
You're in the same position as many people, and I'm not aware of a supporting argument that offers an explanation.
It got 34 felony convictions tho.

Are you ok with the IlliniRay County DA indicting Biden on 34 felony charges sometime next year with underlying crimes, that after the trial no one can explain ?
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1430 on: June 01, 2024, 05:43:44 PM »
If you are unaware of a supporting argument at this point; I can't help you. Take off the blinders.

I have slight doubts on the margins of the 2 cases. A competent defense could raise reasonable doubt. I still think Trump is guilty as hell.

I personally think he wanted to be found guilty / liable in the NY cases. It strengthens his hand to conduct a revenge campaign.

He could have won this case by taking a more conciliatory approach and focusing on raising reasonable doubt.

Instead, he painted himself as the victim to rile up public opinion.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 06:00:50 PM by illiniray »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1431 on: June 01, 2024, 06:01:00 PM »
I am confused.

The defense wanted Brad Smith to testify that in his expert opinion, Trump's covert reimbursement of Cohen's payment of hush money to SD for an NDA didn't violate federal election laws.

Cohen already pleaded guilty to violating federal election laws for making the hush money payment.

The defense maintained Trump knew nothing about the payment or the NDA and he never had sex with SD. They claimed the payments to Cohen were legitimate legal fees.

What do I have wrong, am I missing?

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Illinifan5775

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1432 on: June 01, 2024, 07:33:35 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 31, 2024, 04:48:43 PM
Thanks to Judge Cannon!

Lock him up! Lock him up!
Been out of town without my computer for a few days, family matters. But happy to hear that outcome in a Colorado mountain town restaurant/pub. Everything tasted so much better after learning the verdict.

Lock him up, lock his ass up.
34-34, excellent job by Trash.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 07:38:54 PM by Illinifan5775 »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1433 on: June 01, 2024, 08:12:57 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 01, 2024, 06:01:00 PM
I am confused.

The defense wanted Brad Smith to testify that in his expert opinion, Trump's covert reimbursement of Cohen's payment of hush money to SD for an NDA didn't violate federal election laws.

Cohen already pleaded guilty to violating federal election laws for making the hush money payment.

The defense maintained Trump knew nothing about the payment or the NDA and he never had sex with SD. They claimed the payments to Cohen were legitimate legal fees.

What do I have wrong, am I missing?


Billing an NDA as a campaign expense violates FEC rules. Trump didn't bill it as a campaign expense. And Bragg can't prosecute federal election law.

So what if Cohen plead guilty. Did he have adequate representation ? Did Cohen and the lawyer make a mistake ? Was there a plea agreement ?
It's a completely separate trial.

NDAs aren't illegal. SD signed a statement saying there was no sex.

Daniels can't be trusted. Daniels owes Trump $600,000 and says she won't pay.
Cohen can't be trusted and admitted theft of $60,000 from the Trump organization.

Would you be ok with the IlliniRay County DA indicting Biden next year on 34 felony counts ?

How about Biden and Blinken over the 51 former Intelligence Community members and their letter to influence the 2020 election ?
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1434 on: June 01, 2024, 09:07:16 PM »
I can't find any laws against the intelligence community writing letters expressing their opinions.

Campaign Finance Violations

The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, as amended, Title 52, United States Code, Section 30101, et seq., (the “Election Act”), regulates the influence of money on politics.  At all relevant times, the Election Act set certain limitations and prohibitions, among them: (a) individual contributions to any presidential candidate, including expenditures coordinated with a candidate or his political committee, were limited to $2,700 per election, and presidential candidates and their committees were prohibited from accepting contributions from individuals in excess of this limit; and (b) Corporations were prohibited from making contributions directly to presidential candidates, including expenditures coordinated with candidates or their committees, and candidates were prohibited from accepting corporate contributions.
...

COHEN, 51, of NEW YORK, NEW YORK, pleaded guilty to ...one count of causing an unlawful campaign contribution; and one count of making an excessive campaign contribution.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax#:~:text=COHEN%2C%2051%2C%20of%20NEW%20YORK,making%20an%20excessive%20campaign%20contribution.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1435 on: June 01, 2024, 09:14:54 PM »
Stormy Daniels has long since recanted the statement and testified under oath.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1436 on: June 01, 2024, 09:56:50 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 01, 2024, 09:14:54 PM
Stormy Daniels has long since recanted the statement and testified under oath.
She also signed a statement saying there wasn't a relationship.
But this was a trial about bookkeeping practices. Her testimony was pretty much irrelevant except for what may be viewed as prejudicial.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1437 on: June 01, 2024, 10:11:38 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 01, 2024, 09:07:16 PM
I can't find any laws against the intelligence community writing letters expressing their opinions.

Campaign Finance Violations

The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, as amended, Title 52, United States Code, Section 30101, et seq., (the “Election Act”), regulates the influence of money on politics.  At all relevant times, the Election Act set certain limitations and prohibitions, among them: (a) individual contributions to any presidential candidate, including expenditures coordinated with a candidate or his political committee, were limited to $2,700 per election, and presidential candidates and their committees were prohibited from accepting contributions from individuals in excess of this limit; and (b) Corporations were prohibited from making contributions directly to presidential candidates, including expenditures coordinated with candidates or their committees, and candidates were prohibited from accepting corporate contributions.
...

COHEN, 51, of NEW YORK, NEW YORK, pleaded guilty to ...one count of causing an unlawful campaign contribution; and one count of making an excessive campaign contribution.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax#:~:text=COHEN%2C%2051%2C%20of%20NEW%20YORK,making%20an%20excessive%20campaign%20contribution.
Feds tried the Cohen case

U.S. Attorney's Office, Southern District of New York

vs

Bragg tried the Manhattan case

The New York County District Attorney's Office

Are you ok with the IlliniRay County District Attorney indicting Biden on 34 felony charges based on a novel legal theory.

There is a deposition alleging that Blinken initiated the 51 IC member letter, in part, to influence the election.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1438 on: June 01, 2024, 10:18:10 PM »
Quote from: No one is above the law on June 01, 2024, 09:56:50 PM
She also signed a statement saying there wasn't a relationship.
But this was a trial about bookkeeping practices. Her testimony was pretty much irrelevant except for what may be viewed as prejudicial.

Did you somehow miss the part about her recanting? She was threatened and pressured into signing the statement. She recanted when it was safe to do so. Try reading something outside your comfort zone.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #1439 on: June 01, 2024, 10:23:03 PM »
Biden doesn't live in my county. Unless he visited here and some girl accused him of digital rape, or something like that, there is no chance Biden would prosecuted here. That is just ignorant.
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