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WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?

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illiniray

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The trial was about Trump paying hush money to Stormy Daniels and trying to cover it up. Dam straight her testimony was relevant.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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ThePAMan

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This thread has become greater than ever could be imagined.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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Somewhere in Mn

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The trial was about Trump paying hush money to Stormy Daniels and trying to cover it up. Dam straight her testimony was relevant.
'damn'

NDAs are legal.
The trial was about allegedly attempting to influence an election via post-election bookkeeping practices.

Oddly, the trial was not about an NDA with a doorman who pitched a false story and efforts to influence an election.


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Somewhere in Mn

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Did you somehow miss the part about her recanting? She was threatened and pressured into signing the statement. She recanted when it was safe to do so. Try reading something outside your comfort zone.
Nope, I didn't miss the recanting part about the same lawyer who had her sign the statement and who was also involved in the NDA.

And I didn't miss the story about her not telling the boyfriend who accompanied her that evening because she was 'ashamed' but then kept in contact for months afterwards with the man who caused her to be 'ashamed'.

Nonetheless, the charges relate to the post-election bookkeeping practices and efforts to influence an election.

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Somewhere in Mn

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If you are unaware of a supporting argument at this point; I can't help you. Take off the blinders.

From you, yesterday afternoon: "I am kind of a shaky on the underlying crime that elevated the business fraud to a felony."

Have you seen an argument supporting the underlying crime issue ?

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ThePAMan

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Jury sat there and heard the evidence for 6 weeks as opposed to everyone here. Jury has spoken. Guilty as charged. We shall see what the appeals court says. Until then, lock the felon up!
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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Somewhere in Mn

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Stormy Daniels has long since recanted the statement and testified under oath.
And Trump's lawyer looked at the jury and told them that Cohen, under oath, lied to them on the stand.

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Somewhere in Mn

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Biden doesn't live in my county. Unless he visited here and some girl accused him of digital rape, or something like that, there is no chance Biden would prosecuted here. That is just ignorant.

Oh, just use your imagination and you lived in a county where the local DA indicted Biden on 34 felony charges using a novel legal theory to influence a federal election.


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illiniray

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From you, yesterday afternoon: "I am kind of a shaky on the underlying crime that elevated the business fraud to a felony."

Have you seen an argument supporting the underlying crime issue ?

Yes. I have seen very solid arguments to support the underlying crimes. I know exactly what they are.

Based on a preponderance of the evidence; Trump is more likely than not guilty.

Out in the real world, we know he was guilty. Stormy Daniels and those other people were coerced into signing RNDAs. This was all done at Trump's direction. He just hadn't reimbursed on the others yet.

Anyway, it's obvious Trump's lawyers failed to raise reasonable doubt. I think they could have. I explained why/how, by raising jurisdictional issues.

Arguing the bs that Trump didn't violate Federal Election Laws made no sense. They still had the state law and the tax laws.
 
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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illiniray

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NDAs protecting business trade secrets and proprietary information make sense..

They already can't be used to conceal criminal activity or information that's in the public interest or that involves public safety
 
A recently enacted law is supposed to curtail their use to cover up sexual harassment.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/biden-signs-law-curbing-nondisclosure-agreements-that-block-victims-of-sexual-harassment-from-speaking-out

Congress should hold hearings looking further into the abuse of RNDAs to conceal personal sexual misconduct and improprieties.

“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Somewhere in Mn

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Yes. I have seen very solid arguments to support the underlying crimes. I know exactly what they are.

Based on a preponderance of the evidence; Trump is more likely than not guilty.

Out in the real world, we know he was guilty. Stormy Daniels and those other people were coerced into signing RNDAs. This was all done at Trump's direction. He just hadn't reimbursed on the others yet.

Anyway, it's obvious Trump's lawyers failed to raise reasonable doubt. I think they could have. I explained why/how, by raising jurisdictional issues.

Arguing the bs that Trump didn't violate Federal Election Laws made no sense. They still had the state law and the tax laws.
 
They were " coerced" ?
Do you think they had lawyers by their side when they signed the NDAs ?

"Based on a preponderance of the evidence; Trump is more likely than not guilty."
I think a conviction requires a tiche more than "more likely than not". Something to the effect of "proof beyond reasonable doubt".

Speaking of "beyond reasonable doubt" those words weren't included in the jury instructions with respect to the "unlawful means".
The 2 charges, falsifying business records and a conspiracy to promote or prevent an election, require proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
The "unlawful means" instructions given to the jury were ......
"In determining whether the defendant conspired to
promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office
by unlawful means, you may consider the following unlawful
means: (1) violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act
otherwise known as FECA; (2) the falsification of other business
records; or (3) violation of tax laws."
The jury instructions did not include that any of the 3 "unlawful means" were needed to include "proof beyond a reasonable doubt".

The defense was not given the opportunity to rebut FECA violations. There is reasonable doubt that alleged FECA violations can be tried at the state level. Merchan limiting what the former FEC Commissioner would be allowed to testify to should also raise reasonable doubt.

The idea that state tax laws were used "with proof beyond reasonable doubt" in a conspiracy to influence an election is reasonably doubtful.

That would leave falsification of other business records as the remaining "unlawful means" yet the prosecution focused on FECA violations in their closing arguments. The defense had no opportunity to rebut the prosecution closing arguments and the jury went to deliberations after being told of FECA violations multiple times in closing arguments.
Relying on the falsification of other business records by falsifying business records in a conspiracy to influence an election would seem to be a little circuitous.

Trump's lawyers have said that pre-trial hearings let them know that their ability to provide an adequate trial defense was being limited by Merchan.
The defense can only provide a defense that the judge will allow.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 09:06:14 AM by No one is above the law »

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ThePAMan

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He could have testified to counter Cohen's testimony like he wanted to. Maybe next time on the remand for a new trial he will testify.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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Somewhere in Mn

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He could have testified to counter Cohen's testimony like he wanted to. Maybe next time on the remand for a new trial he will testify.
Nope. He was limited to what is the FEC, what does the FEC do, and maybe what he had for breakfast.
Smith decided it was not worth his time and trouble.

Any appeals will be addressed after the election.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 09:54:05 AM by No one is above the law »

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ThePAMan

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Nope. He was limited to what is the FEC, what does the FEC do, and maybe what he had for breakfast.
Smith decided it was not worth his time and trouble.

Any appeals will be addressed after the election.

Trump could have testified and countered Cohen's and Daniel's factual testimony and testified about protecting the wife (who has said nothing to publicly about the verdict so far)...
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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Somewhere in Mn

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Trump could have testified and countered Cohen's and Daniel's factual testimony and testified about protecting the wife (who has said nothing to publicly about the verdict so far)...
The burden of proof falls on the prosecution.