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Where we screwed up

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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2022, 05:55:03 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on March 21, 2022, 04:36:23 PM
He didn't. You posted a comment after my post about point guards, and Curbelo who by all accounts is not returning.

But you like to be butthurt and argumentative about everything here so carry the fuck on.

I actually think Kofi was our best overall player, a very good college player, but pretty limited and had major passing, face up, and defensive weaknesses which will prevent him from ever seeing an NBA court much at all.

Kofi was limited, but so were our guards. They just weren’t special in any way. Good players but not national title caliber.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Dominic

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2022, 07:13:39 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on March 21, 2022, 10:58:26 AM
It was a tough season, no doubt. . Underwood did not have his team prepared for post-season play.

I’d argue this team played mediocre or bad for 80% of the year.  How many games this year could you say the team played a full good game?

Arizona and Purdue at home - both losses.
At Indiana
At Michigan
Wisconsin
Rutgers
Mizzou

7 out of 30+ games playing at a high level is pretty shitty.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2022, 07:19:21 PM »
Quote from: Dominic on March 21, 2022, 07:13:39 PM
I’d argue this team played mediocre or bad for 80% of the year.  How many games this year could you say the team played a full good game?

Arizona and Purdue at home - both losses.
At Indiana
At Michigan
Wisconsin
Rutgers
Mizzou

7 out of 30+ games playing at a high level is pretty shitty.

I would mostly agree, actually. I gave him the benefit of the doubt based on his last two teams getting better as the season went along. But once everyone was mostly healthy, the team regressed if anything.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Custard

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #78 on: March 21, 2022, 07:29:36 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on March 21, 2022, 03:03:02 PM
You’re using pseudo logic to explain away our problems. Having a 1st team All-American low post behemoth on your roster doesn’t cap your upside. I’d argue having small, not particularly extra-athletic  streaky shooting, middling passing guards who aren’t particularly adept at getting themselves open against solid defense caps your upside more.

Your pseudo-intellectual basketball takes need to be called out more often. Sure, sounds great, because you can’t disprove it, and Kofi is an anomaly in the modern game; but it’s akin to the “the results speak for themselves” when Ayo was out. Kofi wasn’t ball dominant because he’s Kofi. He was ball dominant because we didn’t have more or equally reliable options.

It’s hilarious how you slap the “pseudo” on things you can’t comprehend.

No, having Kofi on our team doesn’t lower our ceiling.

Here’s what does: No one is going to come be a complimentary player (like a Trevion Williams type) knowing Kofi is an AA and going to play 30+ minutes and get most of the touches. So that lowers the ceiling for 10 mins/game when Kofi is out.

Then he’s huge and not quick down the floor so that limits transition opportunities.

And other teams with mobile bigs that can shoot can pull him away from the basket where he is a huge liability and can’t protect the rim.

And teams know he is no threat whatsoever if they can push him off the block so when he catches the ball 12-15 feet from the bucket they can swarm him and force a bad pass out of the double or triple team.

All of these issues lower the team’s ceiling for 30+ mins per game.

Sure if you pair him with a guy like Ayo or Ivey and a really good change of pace small ball 5 you’ve got something. Easier said than done.

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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #79 on: March 21, 2022, 08:08:04 PM »
What’s cool is no one can prove you wrong. Therefore you look smart.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #80 on: March 21, 2022, 08:08:30 PM »
There are lots of ways to win basketball games.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #81 on: March 21, 2022, 08:11:53 PM »
[Here’s what does: No one is going to come be a complimentary player (like a Trevion Williams type) knowing Kofi is an AA and going to play 30+ minutes and get most of the touches. So that lowers the ceiling for 10 mins/game when Kofi is out]

This is just you talking out your ass.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Dominic

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #82 on: March 21, 2022, 08:29:23 PM »
You could just say teams whose #1 option is a center are going to be worse than teams with a #1 option of a lead guard if the players are comparable.

Where Illinois will miss Kofi the most is on defense.  Look how Illinois played defense before him. 
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Custard

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #83 on: March 21, 2022, 08:33:34 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on March 21, 2022, 08:11:53 PM
[Here’s what does: No one is going to come be a complimentary player (like a Trevion Williams type) knowing Kofi is an AA and going to play 30+ minutes and get most of the touches. So that lowers the ceiling for 10 mins/game when Kofi is out]

This is just you talking out your ass.

Let’s say you’re a 20 year old versatile 5 and you’re and in between your soph and junior years in college. You’re transferring hoping to find a place to better develop and showcase your game because, like everyone else, you have pro aspirations.

Do you transfer to Illinois and compete for playing time with an All American, or go to another quality P5 program that really needs a 5 and get starter minutes right away?

This isn’t difficult man
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Custard

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #84 on: March 21, 2022, 08:42:36 PM »
Still waiting for Tempo to provide me a recent or even recent-ish example of a program making a FF or winning a title with a guy like Kofi playing big minutes.  With or without elite guard play.

I have one in mind that’s kind of a fit. That played with 4-5 future pro guards/wings and another cup of coffee NBA big.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2022, 08:43:48 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 21, 2022, 08:33:34 PM
Let’s say you’re a 20 year old versatile 5 and you’re and in between your soph and junior years in college. You’re transferring hoping to find a place to better develop and showcase your game because, like everyone else, you have pro aspirations.

Do you transfer to Illinois and compete for playing time with an All American, or go to another quality P5 program that really needs a 5 and get starter minutes right away?

This isn’t difficult man

Isn't the response, even though he was not a transfer seeking PT, Ayo? Things seemed to work out here for the kid. Isn't the pitch to that kid, hey, here is a center who will be a great complimentary player with you, get you the ball when doubled (HA!), will open things up outside for you, blah blah blah?
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Custard

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2022, 10:49:37 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 21, 2022, 08:43:48 PM
Isn't the response, even though he was not a transfer seeking PT, Ayo? Things seemed to work out here for the kid. Isn't the pitch to that kid, hey, here is a center who will be a great complimentary player with you, get you the ball when doubled (HA!), will open things up outside for you, blah blah blah?

I think that’s a legit argument to be made for wing players or an impact PG—I’m quite sure that exact pitch was sold to Alfonso Plummer.

Don’t think it’s effective for a high quality player who is going to be competing for playing time with Kofi, which was my primary point.

We did pick up Payne last offseason before Kofi, as expected, declared for the draft. And Giorgi left. I don’t think many, including staff, expected either back and Payne at that time made some sense as a depth piece given we had almost no one else on the roster that looked like they could help.

We actively pursued other, better, bigs throughout Kofi’s process but didn’t get much traction. Probably didn’t help that we had so much staff turnover in the meantime.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2022, 11:40:27 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 21, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
Still waiting for Tempo to provide me a recent or even recent-ish example of a program making a FF or winning a title with a guy like Kofi playing big minutes.  With or without elite guard play.

I have one in mind that’s kind of a fit. That played with 4-5 future pro guards/wings and another cup of coffee NBA big.

Not many players are exactly alike, but mostly similar players that come to mind are Jahlil Okafor, Karl Anthony Towns, Tyler Hansbrough, jared Sullinger,  Thomas Robinson, and DeMarcus Cousins.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 11:49:37 PM by Tempo34 »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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illiniray

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #88 on: March 22, 2022, 09:58:48 AM »
How about a top 100 6-9 260 lb big with a 7-6 wing span and good ball handling, low post, and face up skills?  If Kofi returns, he could play some 4. With Hawkins back, and some improvement from Payne, Kofi could get more rest.
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Judge Judy

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #89 on: March 22, 2022, 10:03:18 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on March 22, 2022, 09:58:48 AM
How about a top 100 6-9 260 lb big with a 7-6 wing span and good ball handling, low post, and face up skills?  If Kofi returns, he could play some 4. With Hawkins back, and some improvement from Payne, Kofi could get more rest.

Who is this person you speak of?
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