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Where we screwed up

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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2022, 03:03:02 PM »
You’re using pseudo logic to explain away our problems. Having a 1st team All-American low post behemoth on your roster doesn’t cap your upside. I’d argue having small, not particularly extra-athletic  streaky shooting, middling passing guards who aren’t particularly adept at getting themselves open against solid defense caps your upside more.

Your pseudo-intellectual basketball takes need to be called out more often. Sure, sounds great, because you can’t disprove it, and Kofi is an anomaly in the modern game; but it’s akin to the “the results speak for themselves” when Ayo was out. Kofi wasn’t ball dominant because he’s Kofi. He was ball dominant because we didn’t have more or equally reliable options.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2022, 03:08:31 PM »
Our lack of effectiveness in the screen game capped our upside more than Kofi. The lack of ability to run and cut hurt this team. The step backs 3s look great when they’re falling, though.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2022, 03:17:15 PM »
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Didn't the offense have to go through him because he was the only consistent weapon after Ayo left? If you put Kofi on the 2005 team, he isn't getting double- and triple-teamed is he?
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Lkdog

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2022, 03:45:23 PM »
Hate to say this, but we haven't had a true effective point/lead guard since McCamey.
Ayo was a scoring wing playing point. Trent has been a small shooting guard playing point.
Before that we had nine years of Tracy Abrams and a cast of characters. Abrams was also a converted shooting guard.

It is hard to find lead guards with leadership skills, ball skills, and distributing skills.
Curbelo was just fcking crazy this year. Killed us out there and we really went downhill on offensive movement and flow after he came back with major minutes.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 03:46:58 PM by Lkdog »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2022, 03:58:05 PM »
Basically we are at the "Glad [insert name of best player] is leaving" portion of the grieving.
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Jobu

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2022, 04:17:14 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on March 21, 2022, 03:08:31 PM
Our lack of effectiveness in the screen game capped our upside more than Kofi. The lack of ability to run and cut hurt this team. The step backs 3s look great when they’re falling, though.

If you don't mind, I would like further explanation re: our "lack of effectiveness in the screen game." Is that a point of emphasis for this team? Were we screening poorly? Not screening at all?

Run and cut.  Again, please explain. 

I will say, I saw, more than once, Kofi set a high screen, then roll like a motherfucker to the basket, and Curbelo is standing up top pounding a hole in the floor.  It's like he's never seen, or even heard of, a rolling big hauling ass toward the basket.  Is that what you mean by lack of effectiveness? Because if so, I 100% agree.

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Lkdog

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2022, 04:20:56 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 21, 2022, 03:58:05 PM
Basically we are at the "Glad [insert name of best player] is leaving" portion of the grieving.

No, facts are facts. Curbelo had a KenPom Off Eff Rating of 82.1. Beyond bad. 100 is pretty much neutral. It was a net negative by any objective or subjective measure.
No doubt we were hoping he would recover, but it was obvious he couldn't or wouldn't. Not sure which it was.
Last year he was only 101.8. and people were going crazy over him. He really wasn't under control until last third of the year.
We all liked his potential, but that is what it was.
He still can't make anything beyond a layup or 10 footer and he is a much worse ballhandler now.

For reference- Damonte who was a total nothingburger was 100.8 this year.

A very good lead guard like Gillespie was 123.9.
Nembhard is 119.
Bohannon of all people 121.6 (low TOs, high EFG%, OK Ass rate)
Toussaint who is a mixed bag was 103.3
Xavier Johnson 102.2
Davonte Jones who is going to tear us a new asshole the next couple years is 110.7

Jaylon Tate was 98.5 for chrissakes.

I hope a healthy coachabale team oriented under control Curbelo comes back.
Otherwise maybe it is better he moves on.









« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 04:23:43 PM by Lkdog »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2022, 04:27:01 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on March 21, 2022, 04:20:56 PM
No, facts are facts. Curbelo had a KenPom Off Eff Rating of 82.1. Beyond bad. 100 is pretty much neutral. It was a net negative by any objective or subjective measure.
No doubt we were hoping he would recover, but it was obvious he couldn't or wouldn't. Not sure which it was.
Last year he was only 101.8. and people were going crazy over him. He really wasn't under control until last third of the year.
We all liked his potential, but that is what it was.
He still can't make anything beyond a layup or 10 footer and he is a much worse ballhandler now.

For reference- Damonte who was a total nothingburger was 100.8 this year.

A very good lead guard like Gillespie was 123.9.
Nembhard is 119.
Bohannon of all people 121.6 (low TOs, high EFG%, OK Ass rate)
Toussaint who is a mixed bag was 103.3
Xavier Johnson 102.2
Davonte Jones who is going to tear us a new asshole the next couple years is 110.7

Jaylon Tate was 98.5 for chrissakes.

I hope a healthy coachabale team oriented under control Curbelo comes back.
Otherwise maybe it is better he moves on.

I did not know that Curbelo replaced Kofi as the Illini's best player.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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Lkdog

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2022, 04:36:23 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 21, 2022, 04:27:01 PM
I did not know that Curbelo replaced Kofi as the Illini's best player.

He didn't. You posted a comment after my post about point guards, and Curbelo who by all accounts is not returning.

But you like to be butthurt and argumentative about everything here so carry the fuck on.

I actually think Kofi was our best overall player, a very good college player, but pretty limited and had major passing, face up, and defensive weaknesses which will prevent him from ever seeing an NBA court much at all.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2022, 04:48:41 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on March 21, 2022, 04:36:23 PM
He didn't. You posted a comment after my post about point guards, and Curbelo who by all accounts is not returning.

But you like to be butthurt and argumentative about everything here so carry the fuck on.

I actually think Kofi was our best overall player, a very good college player, but pretty limited and had major passing, face up, and defensive weaknesses which will prevent him from ever seeing an NBA court much at all.

Aren't we a self-centered little mutt? No one said Curbelo was the best player (well, JudgeJudy did say he will be an NBA HOF'er). Yet, for example, we just had Custard and Tempo going back and forth about the ceilings and floors Illinois has with Kofi. Yet again, Illinois' best player gets the "Glad he is gone next year" {WHOM NO ONE HAS SAID IS CURBELO} treatment, just like Ayo did last year.

So, carry on with your dogshit.   
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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Jobu

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2022, 05:05:45 PM »
Why do people get mad at each other when Illinois shits the bed? It’s none of our faults. And nobody’s opinion on here is really worth that much of a shit.

Interesting phenomenon.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2022, 05:21:13 PM »
Quote from: Jobu on March 21, 2022, 05:05:45 PM
Why do people get mad at each other when Illinois shits the bed? It’s none of our faults. And nobody’s opinion on here is really worth that much of a shit.

Interesting phenomenon.

We allow it to happen by supporting such incompetence year after year (and sending our kids to Champaign).  Second part is definitely true. Must be the lead in the water.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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No one in Mn

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2022, 05:26:26 PM »
I'll go back to pre-season ......
We have better shooters on occasion. Living by the sword is also dying by the sword when the shooters are off.
This team never embraced consistent defense.
I've harped on turnovers since year 1 of Underwood. We had some good games this year, moreso than previous years, but we sure don't mind throwing the ball away too often.


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Still hiding behind innuendo and practicing the art of omission.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2022, 05:53:10 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 21, 2022, 04:48:41 PM
Aren't we a self-centered little mutt? No one said Curbelo was the best player (well, JudgeJudy did say he will be an NBA HOF'er). Yet, for example, we just had Custard and Tempo going back and forth about the ceilings and floors Illinois has with Kofi. Yet again, Illinois' best player gets the "Glad he is gone next year" {WHOM NO ONE HAS SAID IS CURBELO} treatment, just like Ayo did last year.

So, carry on with your dogshit.

Always blame the best player when things go wrong. Can’t miss move.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2022, 05:53:30 PM »
Quote from: Jobu on March 21, 2022, 05:05:45 PM
Why do people get mad at each other when Illinois shits the bed? It’s none of our faults. And nobody’s opinion on here is really worth that much of a shit.

Interesting phenomenon.

Very true.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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