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Let's talk about something we all can agree on...

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1245 on: December 12, 2023, 05:02:41 PM »
Here you go, Nichi:

https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-day-the-empress-clothes-fell-ffa

Quote
In the hearings, President Gay actually said, with a straight face, that “we embrace a commitment to free expression even of views that are objectionable, offensive, hateful.” This is the president whose university mandates all students attend a Title IX training session where they are told that “fatphobia” and “cisheterosexism” are forms of “violence,” and that “using the wrong pronouns” constitutes “abuse.” This is the same president who engineered the ouster of a law professor, Ronald Sullivan, simply because he represented a client, of whom Gay and students (rightly but irrelevantly) disapproved, Harvey Weinstein.

This is the same president who watched a brilliant and popular professor, Carole Hooven, be effectively hounded out of her position after a public shaming campaign by one of her department’s DEI enforcers, and a mob of teaching fellows, because Hooven dared to state on television that biological sex is binary.

Quote
Freedom of speech in the Ivy League extends exclusively to the voices of the oppressed; they are also permitted to disrupt classes, deplatform or shout down controversial speakers, hurl obscenities, force members of oppressor groups — i.e. Jewish students and teachers in the latest case — into locked libraries and offices during protests, and blocked from classrooms. Jewish students have even been assaulted — at Harvard, at Columbia, at UMass Amherst, at Tulane. Assaults by woke students used to be rare, such as the 2017 mob at Middlebury that put Allison Stanger in a neck brace — but since 10/7, they’re intensifying.








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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1246 on: December 12, 2023, 05:07:52 PM »
Here you go, Nichi:

https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-day-the-empress-clothes-fell-ffa

,The College Presidents Were Right About Campus Antisemitism Schools should regulate conduct, not speech.
By Jonathan Chait, who’s been a New York political columnist since 2011.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/12/college-presidents-antisemitism-campus-free-speech-congress-stefanik.html
« Last Edit: December 12, 2023, 05:09:23 PM by illiniray »
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1247 on: December 12, 2023, 05:12:42 PM »
,The College Presidents Were Right About Campus Antisemitism Schools should regulate conduct, not speech.
By Jonathan Chait, who’s been a New York political columnist since 2011.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/12/college-presidents-antisemitism-campus-free-speech-congress-stefanik.html

Nichi, the point is that they are hypocrites who have no problem silencing voices they are opposed to while allowing those they approve of to do and say what they want.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1248 on: December 12, 2023, 05:13:37 PM »
Nichi, the point is that they are hypocrites who have no problem silencing voices they are opposed to while allowing those they approve of to do and say what they want.

"There are several underlying causes for the discomfort of the college presidents, not all of which have clear solutions. College campuses have been inundated with pro-Palestinian activism, which sometimes contains a threatening tone to Jewish students. Campuses have also been struggling for a decade or so with left-wing demands to make campuses “safe,” which has entailed cracking down on criticism of the political left.

So what does it mean to make Jewish students feel safe on campus? One way would be to crack down on anti-Israel rhetoric that might make many Jews feel threatened. That would be consistent with the methods universities have sometimes employed to protect other minority groups. But it would also be deeply illiberal."

A more limited and defensible response would be to police conduct. When mobs of students disrupt classes and make it hard for students to walk around campus without being screamed at (or shoved), that creates an intimidating atmosphere." -- ibid

« Last Edit: December 12, 2023, 05:16:39 PM by illiniray »
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1249 on: December 12, 2023, 05:14:34 PM »
"There are several underlying causes for the discomfort of the college presidents, not all of which have clear solutions. College campuses have been inundated with pro-Palestinian activism, which sometimes contains a threatening tone to Jewish students. Campuses have also been struggling for a decade or so with left-wing demands to make campuses “safe,” which has entailed cracking down on criticism of the political left.

So what does it mean to make Jewish students feel safe on campus? One way would be to crack down on anti-Israel rhetoric that might make many Jews feel threatened. That would be consistent with the methods universities have sometimes employed to protect other minority groups. But it would also be deeply illiberal."

And yet they have no problem canceling the speech of some egghead because he expressed a differing viewpoint on affirmative action.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1250 on: December 12, 2023, 05:15:07 PM »
This is like arguing with Tempo about Justin Fields....
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1251 on: December 12, 2023, 05:16:27 PM »
"There are several underlying causes for the discomfort of the college presidents, not all of which have clear solutions. College campuses have been inundated with pro-Palestinian activism, which sometimes contains a threatening tone to Jewish students. Campuses have also been struggling for a decade or so with left-wing demands to make campuses “safe,” which has entailed cracking down on criticism of the political left.

So what does it mean to make Jewish students feel safe on campus? One way would be to crack down on anti-Israel rhetoric that might make many Jews feel threatened. That would be consistent with the methods universities have sometimes employed to protect other minority groups. But it would also be deeply illiberal."

There is a clear solution: Let people speak (sans violence) and let the chips fall where they may? They are college campuses, after all.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1252 on: December 12, 2023, 05:26:49 PM »
Nichi, the point is that they are hypocrites who have no problem silencing voices they are opposed to while allowing those they approve of to do and say what they want.

What else is new?
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1253 on: December 12, 2023, 05:28:27 PM »
What else is new?

It isn't. Ergo the uproar when they were exposed for what they are.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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alum74

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1254 on: December 12, 2023, 06:10:32 PM »
There is a clear solution: Let people speak (sans violence) and let the chips fall where they may? They are college campuses, after all.

There's an old saying that "free speech is good and all, but it's too free if everyone gets it".

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ILLove1997

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1255 on: December 12, 2023, 06:52:08 PM »
There's an old saying that "free speech is good and all, but it's too free if everyone gets it".

that's a real fuckin stupid ass saying if you ask me
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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1256 on: December 12, 2023, 07:01:31 PM »
It isn't. Ergo the uproar when they were exposed for what they are.

Everyone with functional eyes, ears, and brains has known about the double standard of the liberal ivory tower academics for decades. The late Rush Limbaugh made a living pointing it out and mocking them.

I suppose they justified censoring politically incorrect speech, or words that offended traditionally marginalized groups, as a kind of affirmative action, protecting those who deserved protection.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1257 on: December 12, 2023, 07:11:12 PM »
Everyone with functional eyes, ears, and brains has known about the double standard of the liberal ivory tower academics for decades. The late Rush Limbaugh made a living pointing it out and mocking them.

I suppose they justified censoring politically incorrect speech, or words that offended traditionally marginalized groups, as a kind of affirmative action, protecting those who deserved protection.

But the Chait article!

SMDH
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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murphstahoe

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1258 on: December 12, 2023, 07:54:06 PM »
Here you go, Nichi:

https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-day-the-empress-clothes-fell-ffa

In the hearings, President Gay actually said, with a straight face, that “we embrace a commitment to free expression even of views that are objectionable, offensive, hateful.” This is the president whose university mandates all students attend a Title IX training session where they are told that “fatphobia” and “cisheterosexism” are forms of “violence,” and that “using the wrong pronouns” constitutes “abuse.”

There is a difference between "Free speech" and Harassment.

"The Israelis, and by extension the jews, are baby killers! Free Palestine" - Free Speech

"You are a dumb fat fuck with a penis that dresses like a woman you queer" - Harrassment

Harvard is a private entity and does not have to offer enrollment or employment to someone who uses free speech in violation with their mission, code of conduct etc... That could be the space we are in here.

They have a legally required duty to protect students and employees from harassment. Sullivan makes a false equivalency.

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murphstahoe

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1259 on: December 12, 2023, 07:56:03 PM »
that's a real fuckin stupid ass saying if you ask me

You are wrong but I will defend your right to say that