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Let's talk about something we all can agree on...

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1275 on: December 13, 2023, 01:16:23 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 13, 2023, 12:59:11 PM
If no one "actually" called for genocide, then how was it not a hypothetical question?

I answered that. They want to censor other speech they find objectionable by equating it with calling for genocide.
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alum74

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1276 on: December 13, 2023, 01:36:14 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 13, 2023, 01:16:23 PM
I answered that. They want to censor other speech they find objectionable by equating it with calling for genocide.

It would be good to have a working definition of antisemitism that most people accepted. But that's easier said than done.  Here's one perspective.
https://theconversation.com/criticizing-israel-is-not-antisemitic-its-academic-freedom-148864?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=bylinetwitterbutton
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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1277 on: December 13, 2023, 02:20:54 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 13, 2023, 01:05:31 PM
"in the same article for which Dr. Abbot received backlash, he also argued for dismantling ... athletic scholarships"

https://kenyoncollegian.com/opinion/2021/10/mit-made-the-wrong-call-by-disinviting-guest-speaker/

The guy is clearly a nut job. /s

LOL
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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1278 on: December 13, 2023, 02:27:07 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 13, 2023, 01:16:23 PM
I answered that. They want to censor other speech they find objectionable by equating it with calling for genocide.

No you did not answer it. You claim the phrase purportedly can mean different things. We know for a fact that it is a call for the eradication of Israel and its residents who are not "Palestinians" (because Hamas and others have told us that). If it truly means something else, wouldn't that make it a hypothetical question then? Or are you just full of crap like the educators who testified?
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Custard

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1279 on: December 13, 2023, 02:35:01 PM »
Criticizing Israel is warranted and certainly not antisemitic. Seems to be a bunch of momentum around trying to label everything antisemitic in the wake of the mayhem this fall. But it’s still really hard to stomach the state of academia these days. It’s madness.
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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1280 on: December 13, 2023, 02:43:18 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 13, 2023, 02:27:07 PM
No you did not answer it. You claim the phrase purportedly can mean different things. We know for a fact that it is a call for the eradication of Israel and its residents who are not "Palestinians" (because Hamas and others have told us that). If it truly means something else, wouldn't that make it a hypothetical question then? Or are you just full of crap like the educators who testified?

A hypothetical question would be what if somebody actually called for the genocide of Jews? Would that amount to harassment or bullying?

That depends is a correct answer. If it targets a specific individual or goes beyond speech into action are good answers. All hypotheticals.

Stephanik wasn't talking hypotheticals. We both know that. She and others want any criticism of Israel banned.

I want any criticism of me banned as ageist, how 'bout dem apples? Stop calling for my genocide! Full of crap?

« Last Edit: December 13, 2023, 02:45:30 PM by illiniray »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1281 on: December 13, 2023, 02:53:53 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 13, 2023, 02:43:18 PM
A hypothetical question would be what if somebody actually called for the genocide of Jews? Would that amount to harassment or bullying?

That depends is a correct answer. If it targets a specific individual or goes beyond speech into action are good answers. All hypotheticals.

Stephanik wasn't talking hypotheticals. We both know that. She and others want any criticism of Israel banned.

I want any criticism of me banned as ageist, how 'bout dem apples? Stop calling for my genocide! Full of crap?

Again, the issue you obfuscate is the free speech for me but not for thee that is running amuck on college campuses and the blindness of those running said institutions.
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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1282 on: December 13, 2023, 02:59:20 PM »
Quote from: Custard on December 13, 2023, 02:35:01 PM
Criticizing Israel is warranted and certainly not antisemitic. Seems to be a bunch of momentum around trying to label everything antisemitic in the wake of the mayhem this fall. But it’s still really hard to stomach the state of academia these days. It’s madness.

Banning a guy from speaking on climate change and extraterrestrial life because he has weird views on admissions and achieving diversity is madness.

So is marketing cigarettes, sugary cereal, and happy meals to children.

As is concealing your own scientists data on CO2 induced climate change, then planning for it, while publicly denying it's happening.

How about financing  substandard mortgages for overvalued homes with 5 year interest only payment option arms; then using the revenue streams as derivatives to fund mortgage backed securities?

Whatever Enron was doing.

Lots of madness going around.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2023, 03:05:33 PM by illiniray »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1283 on: December 13, 2023, 02:59:27 PM »
And it seems to be a hypothetical question to that point
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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1284 on: December 13, 2023, 03:00:32 PM »
Quote from: Custard on December 13, 2023, 02:35:01 PM
Criticizing Israel is warranted and certainly not antisemitic. Seems to be a bunch of momentum around trying to label everything antisemitic in the wake of the mayhem this fall. But it’s still really hard to stomach the state of academia these days. It’s madness.

True.. sometimes it is warranted, sometimes it isn't.
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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1285 on: December 13, 2023, 03:01:56 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 13, 2023, 02:53:53 PM
Again, the issue you obfuscate is the free speech for me but not for thee that is running amuck on college campuses and the blindness of those running said institutions.

I agree the double standard exists and is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Sadly, that is where we are.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1286 on: December 13, 2023, 03:10:03 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 13, 2023, 03:01:56 PM
I agree the double standard exists and is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Sadly, that is where we are.

Ok.. we found something to agree on. Unless you start moving the goal posts....
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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1287 on: December 13, 2023, 03:16:00 PM »
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Custard

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1288 on: December 13, 2023, 03:39:47 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 13, 2023, 02:59:20 PM
Banning a guy from speaking on climate change and extraterrestrial life because he has weird views on admissions and achieving diversity is madness.

So is marketing cigarettes, sugary cereal, and happy meals to children.

As is concealing your own scientists data on CO2 induced climate change, then planning for it, while publicly denying it's happening.

How about financing  substandard mortgages for overvalued homes with 5 year interest only payment option arms; then using the revenue streams as derivatives to fund mortgage backed securities?

Whatever Enron was doing.

Lots of madness going around.

The common denominator in most of what you list here is that there were warning signs that were ignored and the issues continued to grow until they became a crisis. The weird hive mind of academia in 2023 is a threat to the American way of life. I understand that is a feature and not a bug for many of you.

Luckily a lot of these kids are more resilient and smell the BS better than we give them credit for. They are however still indoctrinating a fair amount of impressionable victim status seeking kids into their weird woke cult. 
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murphstahoe

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1289 on: December 14, 2023, 12:31:40 PM »
Quote from: Custard on December 13, 2023, 02:35:01 PM
Criticizing Israel is warranted and certainly not antisemitic. Seems to be a bunch of momentum around trying to label everything antisemitic in the wake of the mayhem this fall. But it’s still really hard to stomach the state of academia these days. It’s madness.

The nuance is that there are definitely a lot of people who revel in criticizing Israel *because they are anti-semitic* - not on the merits of what Israel is doing. Israel invades - criticize. Israel pulls out - criticize.

But there are plenty of criticisms of Israel that - as you note - are warranted. The debate over whether the criticism is warranted is always colored by the participants who will critique just because jews.
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