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WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

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alum74

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #270 on: April 17, 2020, 07:26:16 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on April 17, 2020, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: fucking on April 17, 2020, 03:20:41 PM
It only kills libruls. Now get out there and lick some doorknobs!

I've been following the numbers in the downstate/exurban counties my in laws and extended family from my side live, very closely. I can see the hockey stick coming - I'm worried it's gonna get very very ugly. A lot of these towns are all now forced to shop at the one walmart in the slightly bigger town for almost everything, it's like one stop coronavirus shopping.


‘It Really Is the Perfect Storm’: Coronavirus Comes for Rural America
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/15/coronavirus-rural-america-covid-19-186031

Heartland hotspots: A sudden rise in coronavirus cases is hitting rural states without stay-at-home orders
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/politics/republican-governors-stay-at-home-coronavirus/index.html

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fucking

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #271 on: April 17, 2020, 07:42:28 PM »
We made it a few answers without anyone refuting the fallacy that Covid is coastal.

I mean, I guess Detroit and Chicago are coastal. But more importantly, they're major hubs for international travel, and a huge portion of their population uses public transit.

I spend a lot of time in NYC. I ride the E and F trains a lot (and the Q70, Q46, sometimes the Q54 and Q60 for those keeping track). I have no idea how I'd stay six feet apart from everybody.

On the left coast, I use the LA Metro more than the typical Angeleno. It's sad to say, but it probably cut down the spread significantly. (On the bright side, they now have clean air for the first time in 70 years.)

The bay area has terrible, if ubiquitous, transit. And whether people were already hunkered down, I still want to give BART the finger.
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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #272 on: April 19, 2020, 12:07:09 PM »
Quote from: fucking on April 17, 2020, 03:21:53 AM
It's not just the Smithfield plant, of course.

Workers in lots of industries aren't thrilled by their working conditions. Perhaps Custard thinks they all want to be there. Work makes us free, after all.

I’m the last person that would ever believe that work makes us free, but a lot of people base their entire identity and self-worth on what they do to pay their bills. At some point in all this, business owners are going to have to decide if they can or want to to reopen, and their employees will have to decide if they can or want to go back to work.

Herd immunity will continue to grow and as long as we keep the cases below the threshold of the medical community’s ability to handle them, and protect those most vulnerable, then that’s about all we can do. Short of waiting for a vaccine, which doesn’t appear to be an option, there is going to be a probable spike of cases (which will be extremely politicized) when the economy reopens. That’s common sense.

As far as people not liking their working conditions even when there isn’t a pandemic, it’s simple. If you don’t like your job find another one.
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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #273 on: April 19, 2020, 12:23:18 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 17, 2020, 12:15:59 AM
Quote from: Custard on April 16, 2020, 11:26:43 PM
Quote from: fucking on April 16, 2020, 07:45:08 PM
Quote from: Custard on April 16, 2020, 05:29:56 PM
CNN fear mongering

It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.

Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.

Dead bodies are easy to quantify. Anyone that tests positive for it dies from it. They get more money that way. Thousands if not millions of people die each year the same way with no fanfare and no economic shutdown that cripples the working class and those in our society that are most vulnerable.

For a place that’s full of liberals I find it interesting how no one is talking about impeachment, the election, and the government giving billions to Wall Street while completely fucking small business, independent contractors and people in the service industries.

I mean those people who are still acting like this is the doomsday virus have to be living in another reality at this point, right? I’m just surprised at how easily you folks in that camp have had your attention diverted.

Not sure attention is diverted as opposed to it being completely predictable that Trump would help his friends on Wall Street and in Red States while screwing over everyone else, including a large segment of his fan base.

Nonetheless, you completely ignore that the amount of deaths are double what they are on average in the areas that have been hit hardest by this. That there is only 4 or 8 or whatever known cases in your country is good. Probably a signal that the lockdown is helping prevent the spread to low density areas that are not seeing people who have traveled to areas where they could be exposed.

 Seems odd that the South Dakota meatpacking plant has been hit hard, doesn't it? Or, maybe not since they probably get a ton of truckers, etc. in there.

I am not ignoring it. Dr. Birx made it clear that anyone who carried covid is listed as a covid death regardless of actual cause of death. It also appears hospitals are being incentivized to report as many Covid cases as possible in order to receive up to 15% additional funding under the CARES Act.

I mean hey if you wanna trust the numbers you're getting from the talking heads, go ahead. They’ll be making movies and books and documentaries for years about all the fuckery that’s led up to this, is still happening, and will continue to happen indefinitely. A la the housing bubble of 2008.
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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #274 on: April 19, 2020, 12:26:27 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 16, 2020, 09:19:59 PM
Quote from: fucking on April 16, 2020, 07:45:08 PM
Quote from: Custard on April 16, 2020, 05:29:56 PM
CNN fear mongering

It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.

Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.

Someone has to play the heel!

Gelato and BeachBum haven’t registered yet 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #275 on: April 19, 2020, 12:39:26 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on April 17, 2020, 02:07:15 PM
Quote from: Custard on April 16, 2020, 05:24:24 PM



I don’t buy this at all. Not one little bit. There have been 8 confirmed cases in my entire county and none of them serious let alone fatal. Caution was certainly warranted but once the first wave is flattened and the weather warms it’s going to work in our favor. I read a study they conducted in Germany that something like 15% of one entire community that was tested had already had it and recovered at home or were asymptomatic. When taking this into account it pushed the true treatment and mortality rate down to levels almost like normal seasonal flu. But hey guess we will see what happens.

I don't know what county you're talking about, but the woman with the hair dye is from Fucking scUM which is a big red map.

The reason this started in NYC and the Bay Area is because those are international portals. But it isn't non-existent in the sticks, and the people in the sticks aren't taking this seriously, once it hits it will hit hard, a lot of these areas all the stores went bankrupt and the only groceries are Dollar Tree and Walmart, so it's just a big disease funnel. If you only have 8 cases, chances are you are in a place remote enough that you also don't have a lot of ICU beds, or the ability to just throw up a mobile hospital in a football stadium

The people out here in the sticks are taking it pretty damned seriously. But we sticks dwellers, by choice, also have the benefits of not living in a crowded city where people are stacked on top of each other assholes to elbows, which imo has numerous advantages besides just making it easier to social distance and avoid disease.

Speaking of football our entire county’s population is roughly equal to what the attendance for an Illini football game vs Kent State during a snowstorm would be so I think we’ll be fine.
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fucking

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #276 on: April 19, 2020, 12:55:34 PM »
Quote from: Custard on April 19, 2020, 12:07:09 PM
Herd immunity will continue to grow and as long as we keep the cases below the threshold of the medical community’s ability to handle them, and protect those most vulnerable, then that’s about all we can do. Short of waiting for a vaccine, which doesn’t appear to be an option ...

"Until we have a vaccine, anyone talking about herd immunity as a preventative strategy for COVID-19 is simply wrong."

https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #277 on: April 19, 2020, 02:36:09 PM »
Quote from: Custard on April 19, 2020, 12:39:26 PM

The people out here in the sticks are taking it pretty damned seriously. But we sticks dwellers, by choice, also have the benefits of not living in a crowded city where people are stacked on top of each other assholes to elbows, which imo has numerous advantages besides just making it easier to social distance and avoid disease.

Speaking of football our entire county’s population is roughly equal to what the attendance for an Illini football game vs Kent State during a snowstorm would be so I think we’ll be fine.

I'm pretty certain those folks protesting in Minneapolis, Lansing, and Columbus, weren't from Minneapolis, Detroit, and Cleveland. The various nextdoor/twitter/facebook in the Bay Area are all people talking about pleading with their parents in their ancestral homelands in the sticks to stay home and get a mask. My 85 year old in-laws have been to the store/CVS 3-4x as often as we have, and have politely waved off any offers for us to set up delivery. Though my sister/brother in-law did drive down from Naperville and have Easter Brunch with them from across the lawn and left pre-sanitized groceries on the step, they thought it was silly. If we attribute that to age - "The sticks" has a much higher average age.

The "assholes to elbows" meme is amusing, but doesn't really tell the story. If every person in Logan County is shopping at the exact same Walmart, they have a *higher* concentration of people in terms of residual contacts than someone in New York City. While they are absolutely just driving their car instead of walking down a sidewalk or taking public transit that might contain other people, that implies other direct contacts at gas stations. But the sidewalks and public transit in metro areas are devoid of people right now anyway. It's easier to self distance in places with a higher level of services - even in sticks-ish Sonoma County we have enough hospitals to separate Covid patients completely by building. The fact that people in the sticks drive everywhere is also contributing to what is showing to be a higher mortality rate because of higher rates of co-morbidity - obesity and diabetes.

ILLove lives in Washoe County NV, which is not particularly dense, and they have a higher per capita infection than San Francisco County, despite not being an international hub of any note. Clinton County IL is "the sticks" and they have 117 cases per 100k people, which is higher than Santa Clara County which was one of the first major epicenters.
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illinicalvin

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #278 on: April 19, 2020, 03:45:12 PM »
Quote from: Custard on April 19, 2020, 12:39:26 PM
The people out here in the sticks are taking it pretty damned seriously. But we sticks dwellers, by choice, also have the benefits of not living in a crowded city where people are stacked on top of each other assholes to elbows, which imo has numerous advantages besides just making it easier to social distance and avoid disease.

Speaking of football our entire county’s population is roughly equal to what the attendance for an Illini football game vs Kent State during a snowstorm would be so I think we’ll be fine.
Fine is relative. Density and volume decrease, but so does access to healthcare. A hospital strained when a 6th patient needs a ventilator is no better than a hospital whose limit is 100 having patient 101 show up. Above-margin casualties are lower in the absolute sense but may be higher in a percent of the population view. Losing 50 people in a month in a declining town of 5k with a typical weekly mortality of like 4-5 people is fairly traumatic.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #279 on: April 19, 2020, 04:54:30 PM »
Quote from: Custard on April 19, 2020, 12:23:18 PM
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 17, 2020, 12:15:59 AM
Quote from: Custard on April 16, 2020, 11:26:43 PM
Quote from: fucking on April 16, 2020, 07:45:08 PM
Quote from: Custard on April 16, 2020, 05:29:56 PM
CNN fear mongering

It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.

Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.

Dead bodies are easy to quantify. Anyone that tests positive for it dies from it. They get more money that way. Thousands if not millions of people die each year the same way with no fanfare and no economic shutdown that cripples the working class and those in our society that are most vulnerable.

For a place that’s full of liberals I find it interesting how no one is talking about impeachment, the election, and the government giving billions to Wall Street while completely fucking small business, independent contractors and people in the service industries.

I mean those people who are still acting like this is the doomsday virus have to be living in another reality at this point, right? I’m just surprised at how easily you folks in that camp have had your attention diverted.

Not sure attention is diverted as opposed to it being completely predictable that Trump would help his friends on Wall Street and in Red States while screwing over everyone else, including a large segment of his fan base.

Nonetheless, you completely ignore that the amount of deaths are double what they are on average in the areas that have been hit hardest by this. That there is only 4 or 8 or whatever known cases in your country is good. Probably a signal that the lockdown is helping prevent the spread to low density areas that are not seeing people who have traveled to areas where they could be exposed.

 Seems odd that the South Dakota meatpacking plant has been hit hard, doesn't it? Or, maybe not since they probably get a ton of truckers, etc. in there.

I am not ignoring it. Dr. Birx made it clear that anyone who carried covid is listed as a covid death regardless of actual cause of death. It also appears hospitals are being incentivized to report as many Covid cases as possible in order to receive up to 15% additional funding under the CARES Act.

I mean hey if you wanna trust the numbers you're getting from the talking heads, go ahead. They’ll be making movies and books and documentaries for years about all the fuckery that’s led up to this, is still happening, and will continue to happen indefinitely. A la the housing bubble of 2008.

Something appears to be getting lost in translation. Let me put it this way: if the 5 year average of deaths in NYC in March is 10,000 and this year the number of deaths is 20,000, that is an issue. And this is happening in NY, Italy, etc. that have been hard hit by this.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #280 on: April 19, 2020, 06:13:15 PM »
In New York City, 18,551 people died of all causes between March 11 and April 13 2020.  Expected deaths for New York City from March 11-April 13 based on past experience: 5155.
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fucking

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #281 on: April 19, 2020, 06:31:42 PM »
People need to avoid having a heart attack in NYC right now.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #282 on: April 19, 2020, 07:04:43 PM »
Quote from: fucking on April 19, 2020, 06:31:42 PM
People need to avoid having a heart attack in NYC right now.

18,551 is about 13400 more than normal. Of those, 10367 were directly attributed to covid-19 infections. That leaves about 3000 more above the average. Were these possibly due to overtaxed health care facilities?
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ridingthegrange

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #283 on: April 19, 2020, 07:46:11 PM »
It could possibly be that's the case.  Or maybe, there's deceased folks who've never been tested.
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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #284 on: April 19, 2020, 07:59:36 PM »
Quote from: fucking on April 19, 2020, 12:55:34 PM
Quote from: Custard on April 19, 2020, 12:07:09 PM
Herd immunity will continue to grow and as long as we keep the cases below the threshold of the medical community’s ability to handle them, and protect those most vulnerable, then that’s about all we can do. Short of waiting for a vaccine, which doesn’t appear to be an option ...

"Until we have a vaccine, anyone talking about herd immunity as a preventative strategy for COVID-19 is simply wrong."

https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic

It’s not a preventative strategy and I didn’t claim it to be a cure all. It’s just basic science that herd immunity will unquestionably be a positive factor going forward. To argue otherwise would basically put that person in the anti-vaxxer camp.
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