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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5580 on: July 29, 2023, 12:04:51 PM »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5581 on: July 29, 2023, 12:08:36 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 29, 2023, 11:15:57 AM
Again, did anyone go to jail for spreading misinformation?
Whether someone went to jail or not for what they said is not the test.

The "chilling" of speech is also prohibited. Government action targeting expression that deters free speech rights protected by the 1st Amendment is also prohibited.

Now, is "misinformation" akin to yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie house which is not protected speech under the 1st Amendment? That is the question, kind sir, and probably depends on the "misinformation."
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5582 on: July 29, 2023, 12:22:18 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on July 29, 2023, 12:04:51 PM
Interesting article on the topic:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-evolving-free-speech-battle-between-social-media-and-the-government

That was an interesting read, thanks for posting it. Telling The FaceBook or The Twitter that Sleepy Joe wants a parody account deleted is far different from a government agency pointing out that "x is a flat out lie that could kill people," but there is a lot of grey area in the latter too.

Ironically enough,  it appears that the big corporations Tempo hates may wind up doing the censoring that Tempo wants done here. The Twitter is having cash problems because Big Business does not want their products associated with racist, xenophobic, pick your phobic, speech. Whether that causes The Twitter to do more moderation as time goes on remains to be seen.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5583 on: July 29, 2023, 12:39:53 PM »
Tempo was probably doing a lot of nodding when he read 1984.
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5584 on: July 29, 2023, 01:01:23 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on July 29, 2023, 12:08:36 PM
Whether someone went to jail or not for what they said is not the test.

The "chilling" of speech is also prohibited. Government action targeting expression that deters free speech rights protected by the 1st Amendment is also prohibited.

Now, is "misinformation" akin to yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie house which is not protected speech under the 1st Amendment? That is the question, kind sir, and probably depends on the "misinformation."

It is absolutely the test. The Constitution guarantees you the government can’t jail you for saying something. It’s doesn’t say the government can’t try and censor, or “ask nicely” not to say something.
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5585 on: July 29, 2023, 01:04:15 PM »
Quote from: Custard on July 29, 2023, 12:39:53 PM
Tempo was probably doing a lot of nodding when he read 1984.

As PAMan pointed out, you can’t tell “Fire!” in a crowded theater. The Constitution protects you from being jailed. It doesn’t necessarily give you the right to say anything you want without recourse. Can anyone show me where the government (forcibly) stifled “free speech?”
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5586 on: July 29, 2023, 01:07:50 PM »
“Censor” is a poorly chosen word on my part. The White House can lobby entities such as FB not to engage in certain behavior. If the White House was retaliatory in any way, I’m unaware of it.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5587 on: July 29, 2023, 01:14:09 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on July 29, 2023, 12:22:18 PM
That was an interesting read, thanks for posting it. Telling The FaceBook or The Twitter that Sleepy Joe wants a parody account deleted is far different from a government agency pointing out that "x is a flat out lie that could kill people," but there is a lot of grey area in the latter too.

Ironically enough,  it appears that the big corporations Tempo hates may wind up doing the censoring that Tempo wants done here. The Twitter is having cash problems because Big Business does not want their products associated with racist, xenophobic, pick your phobic, speech. Whether that causes The Twitter to do more moderation as time goes on remains to be seen.

I wouldn't call it censorship.  Businesses, big and small, have always been selective about where they spend their advertising dollars.  And the reasons vary greatly.  If a business doesn't want to be associated with a social media company due to conflicts with internal policies or strategies, so be it. 

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5588 on: July 29, 2023, 02:09:45 PM »
I’m not John Roberts, but as far as I know “attempting to wield influence,” as considerable as that influence isn’t illegal. Again, was FB “punished” in away?
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Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5589 on: July 29, 2023, 02:20:29 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on July 29, 2023, 12:22:18 PM
That was an interesting read, thanks for posting it. Telling The FaceBook or The Twitter that Sleepy Joe wants a parody account deleted is far different from a government agency pointing out that "x is a flat out lie that could kill people," but there is a lot of grey area in the latter too.

Ironically enough,  it appears that the big corporations Tempo hates may wind up doing the censoring that Tempo wants done here. The Twitter is having cash problems because Big Business does not want their products associated with racist, xenophobic, pick your phobic, speech. Whether that causes The Twitter to do more moderation as time goes on remains to be seen.

I don’t ever recall saying I “wanted censorship.” I’m merely saying it’s not illegal for the White House to attempt to exert influence. I was fairly indifferent to the White House’s attempt to curtail misinformation. I’m almost always “pro free speech,” but I won’t cry if misinformation is discredited or even stifled if it’s done legally.
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Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5590 on: July 29, 2023, 03:21:54 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 29, 2023, 02:20:29 PM
I don’t ever recall saying I “wanted censorship.” I’m merely saying it’s not illegal for the White House to attempt to exert influence. I was fairly indifferent to the White House’s attempt to curtail misinformation. I’m almost always “pro free speech,” but I won’t cry if misinformation is discredited or even stifled if it’s done legally.

I’m sure you can see that it’s a slippery slope. Who decides what is misinformation and how to stifle it? A panel of independent scientists or journalists? Giant corporations? The government that is bought and paid for by said corporations? Dipshit hippies at the tech companies?

Who governs the intersection of censorship/free speech/propaganda?

I’m pretty comfortable gathering different viewpoints and information and then coming to my own conclusion rather than being spoonfed some narrative.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2023, 03:24:13 PM by Custard »
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5591 on: July 29, 2023, 03:39:56 PM »
Generally, I’ll side with the overwhelming majority of scientists on scientific issues.
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5592 on: July 29, 2023, 03:43:45 PM »
Custard “did his own research.”
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Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5593 on: July 29, 2023, 04:03:17 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on July 29, 2023, 02:09:45 PM
I’m not John Roberts, but as far as I know “attempting to wield influence,” as considerable as that influence isn’t illegal. Again, was FB “punished” in away?

We can tell that you are neither John Roberts nor even Clarence Thomas when it comes to your understanding of 1st Amendment jurisprudence and the rights provided to you and others under said 1st Amendment. Sending someone to jail is not the test. They courts refused to allow Skokie to preclude the Illinois Nazis from marching there. Going to jail was not the issue.

Now, take what you have said on this topic today and apply it to Trump asking Elon to get stuff you post on The Twitter about, say, his environmental policy deleted.

Did you read the article Alum posted?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5594 on: July 29, 2023, 05:00:15 PM »
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