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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #765 on: September 11, 2020, 08:46:37 AM »
Quote from: Custard on September 11, 2020, 07:38:13 AM
Hamblin seems to broadly contradict himself in the second article. The first article is titled, “You’re likely to get the corona virus,” and has a subheading of, “Most cases are not life-threatening, which is also what makes the virus a historic challenge to contain.”  As previously discussed he says it’s essentially uncontainable.

Then he comes back later in the second article and points to the lack of unified response in the US as the reason we were unable to contain it.

The continued attempt at fear mongering over increased cases with relatively very few hospitalizations and deaths is silly at best.
Agreed.
The 1st article was well written, imo. The 2nd, not so much so.
His foresight was much better than the hindsight.
There was no road map going into this, and any and all moves made were/are subject to critique in hindsight. If someone wants to do that.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #766 on: September 11, 2020, 09:18:00 AM »
Oh brother.  Face the fact that we half assed this and are paying the price economically for it. Even reopening things are not going well because most people don't want to catch this thing and roll the dice that they won't have long term issues.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #767 on: September 11, 2020, 10:19:51 AM »
Quote from: Mn on September 11, 2020, 08:46:37 AM
Agreed.
The 1st article was well written, imo. The 2nd, not so much so.
His foresight was much better than the hindsight.
There was no road map going into this, and any and all moves made were/are subject to critique in hindsight. If someone wants to do that.

Here’s Hamblin’s thoughts on the “herd immunity strategy.”

“But “herd-immunity strategy” is a contradiction in terms, in that herd immunity is the absence of a strategy. Herd immunity is an important public-health concept, developed and used to guide vaccination policy. It involves a calculation of the percentage of people in a population who would need to achieve immunity in order to prevent an outbreak. The same concept offers little such guidance during an ongoing pandemic without a vaccine. If it were a military strategy, it would mean letting the enemy tear through you until they stop because there’s no one left to attack.”

Herd Immunity Is Not a Strategy
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/herd-immunity-is-not-a-strategy/615967/
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ridingthegrange

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #768 on: September 11, 2020, 10:57:54 AM »
I have to say that there was a road map going into this.  The feds had been planning and training for this since the early 2000's.  That the pandemic folks were excused from the National Security Council and the War Time President parachuted out of the plane rendered much of it inoperative.

Let's see:  4% of the world's population with best medical folks; 22% of the fatalities.  Nothing to see here.   GMAFB!
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #769 on: September 11, 2020, 11:17:49 AM »
As was discussed earlier the data indicates that there is a high level of worldwide herd immunity already present from previous corona virus infections.

Do you guys remember when we cancelled the world and had a shelter in place order until the end of May? I remember going over three months without a haircut and almost everything being shut down. That is pretty severe and pretty much the same as what most of Europe did. Some states reopened too early and saw a spike in hospitalizations. They reimplemented procedures and got it back under control. The US has gone on to develop one of the most robust testing policies in the world.

Trump was an arrogant jackass about it. I blame him for not taking it seriously costing some lives in the early going. I’m ultimately ok with the federal government letting the states make their own decisions at the local level rather than throwing a blanket policy over the entire country. We even saw Illinois break further down into zones because it doesn’t make necessarily make sense to apply the same rules in Clark County as Cook County.

I think most places did a pretty good job flattening the curve which was what we set out to do. It wasn’t to try and stop all cases from happening, just to keep from overwhelming health services. Some places didn’t do a very good job and ended up looking like idiots. It looks like the worst is behind us thankfully.


smite me soy boys
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #770 on: September 11, 2020, 11:52:58 AM »
Sorry you couldn't get a haircut for 3 months?
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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #771 on: September 11, 2020, 12:04:43 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on September 11, 2020, 09:18:00 AM
Oh brother.  Face the fact that we half assed this and are paying the price economically for it. Even reopening things are not going well because most people don't want to catch this thing and roll the dice that they won't have long term issues.

It's a bummer. 

Since late July we've settled into a pattern of peaks-valleys-plateaus-peaks-valleys-plateaus for the death toll in the U.S.  Seems like we’re on a path to learn the hard way.

Tens of thousands of needless deaths and untold number of lingering impacts.   

I’m so old I remember when Americans were ready to take on major challenges and believed in the common good.   I also remember when we had competent leadership.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #772 on: September 11, 2020, 12:46:10 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on September 11, 2020, 11:52:58 AM
Sorry you couldn't get a haircut for 3 months?

I wasn’t complaining I’m using it as an example of how long basic services were unavailable.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #773 on: September 11, 2020, 12:49:46 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on September 11, 2020, 12:04:43 PM
I’m so old I remember when Americans were ready to take on major challenges and believed in the common good.   I also remember when we had competent leadership.

Was that back during Nam? 1968? Nixon? Stagflation? The Cold War and constant fear of nuclear annihilation? I can’t ever remember when the “good old days” were.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #774 on: September 11, 2020, 12:52:12 PM »
Quote from: Custard on September 11, 2020, 11:17:49 AM

Do you guys remember when we cancelled the world and had a shelter in place order until the end of May? I remember going over three months without a haircut and almost everything being shut down. That is pretty severe and pretty much the same as what most of Europe did. Some states reopened too early and saw a spike in hospitalizations. They reimplemented procedures and got it back under control. The US has gone on to develop one of the most robust testing policies in the world.

Trump was an arrogant jackass about it. I blame him for not taking it seriously costing some lives in the early going. I’m ultimately ok with the federal government letting the states make their own decisions at the local level rather than throwing a blanket policy over the entire country. We even saw Illinois break further down into zones because it doesn’t make necessarily make sense to apply the same rules in Clark County as Cook County.

I think most places did a pretty good job flattening the curve which was what we set out to do. It wasn’t to try and stop all cases from happening, just to keep from overwhelming health services. Some places didn’t do a very good job and ended up looking like idiots. It looks like the worst is behind us thankfully.


smite me soy boys

This is just dumb. In Italy they had cops patrolling to make sure the streets were clear. Here, we had pool parties in the Ozarks on Memorial Day. The countries that succeeded *shut* things down.

The response needed to be federal because yeah, that pool party in the Ozarks - that was people from out of town.  Sun Valley Idaho had a HUGE spike in that dinky little town because a bunch of people from LA went up there to "ride out the pandemic" and by doing so extended the pandemic by infecting a new population. My idiot friends from Chicago - "We're going up to Wisconsin - you're allowed to do X/Y/Z there" - thus taking people from places with high infection rates and introducing them to places with low infection rates, thus jacking up the infection rate in the place that was "doing well"


You couldn't get a haircut for 3 months. What a douche. Shouldn't matter because you're locked up inside, if it's uncomfortable, hack it off with some scissors, it will grow back and if it won't you didn't need a haircut anyway.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #775 on: September 11, 2020, 12:59:22 PM »
Quote from: Custard on September 11, 2020, 12:49:46 PM
Was that back during Nam? 1968? Nixon? Stagflation? The Cold War and constant fear of nuclear annihilation? I can’t ever remember when the “good old days” were.
Vietnam was a dumbass war so a lot of Americans did band together to protest the war and eventually those Americans got Nixon to end it.

The better reference is probably World War II, which nobody on this board presumably remembers - but people on this board may be old enough (I certainly am) that we had coherent conversations with WW II veterans who weren't much older than I am now. When I was growing up in the 70's, there was substantially less media to consume - Sunday night was a big deal because there would be a movie on TV, we would make popcorn and gather as a family to watch a movie at exactly 7 PM on Sunday on ABC. Given that WW2 wasn't just abstract to 99% of the population, a lot of the movies were war movies like Bridge too Far, Dirty Dozen, Kelly's Heroes. In 8th Grade US History we probably spent and entire quarter just on World War II.

A teenager this day, World War II is ancient history - nobody is sitting down with their grandparents hearing stories of rationing coupons.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #776 on: September 11, 2020, 01:49:00 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on September 11, 2020, 12:52:12 PM
This is just dumb. In Italy they had cops patrolling to make sure the streets were clear. Here, we had pool parties in the Ozarks on Memorial Day. The countries that succeeded *shut* things down.

The response needed to be federal because yeah, that pool party in the Ozarks - that was people from out of town.  Sun Valley Idaho had a HUGE spike in that dinky little town because a bunch of people from LA went up there to "ride out the pandemic" and by doing so extended the pandemic by infecting a new population. My idiot friends from Chicago - "We're going up to Wisconsin - you're allowed to do X/Y/Z there" - thus taking people from places with high infection rates and introducing them to places with low infection rates, thus jacking up the infection rate in the place that was "doing well"


You couldn't get a haircut for 3 months. What a douche. Shouldn't matter because you're locked up inside, if it's uncomfortable, hack it off with some scissors, it will grow back and if it won't you didn't need a haircut anyway.

This is fantastic. Mr. Defund the Police pining for the police to keep everyone locked inside their homes until someone says it’s safe to come out. 

Pure gold.

I’m trying to envision a world where things were done to physically prevent people from going to Wisconsin or the Ozarks and it’s some seriously scary dystopian police state stuff you’re advocating for. 😳

You wanna talk about dumb? You are so emotionally attached to your tribe’s stance on this that you can’t even be objective about any of it.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #777 on: September 11, 2020, 01:56:05 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on September 11, 2020, 12:59:22 PM
Vietnam was a dumbass war so a lot of Americans did band together to protest the war and eventually those Americans got Nixon to end it.

The better reference is probably World War II, which nobody on this board presumably remembers - but people on this board may be old enough (I certainly am) that we had coherent conversations with WW II veterans who weren't much older than I am now. When I was growing up in the 70's, there was substantially less media to consume - Sunday night was a big deal because there would be a movie on TV, we would make popcorn and gather as a family to watch a movie at exactly 7 PM on Sunday on ABC. Given that WW2 wasn't just abstract to 99% of the population, a lot of the movies were war movies like Bridge too Far, Dirty Dozen, Kelly's Heroes. In 8th Grade US History we probably spent and entire quarter just on World War II.

A teenager this day, World War II is ancient history - nobody is sitting down with their grandparents hearing stories of rationing coupons.

My paternal grandparents have both told me a great deal about it and one of my school projects sometime in the 1990s was to interview a WWII vet. I remember it well.

There is a common glow  amongst these people as a result of watching a nation unite to overcome an existential threat when they were young. It took an astonishingly horrific event (77 million people died) beyond the scope of anything any of us can fathom to foster that glow. Try again.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #778 on: September 11, 2020, 03:08:41 PM »
Quote from: Custard on September 11, 2020, 01:49:00 PM
This is fantastic. Mr. Defund the Police pining for the police to keep everyone locked inside their homes until someone says it’s safe to come out. 

Pure gold.

I’m trying to envision a world where things were done to physically prevent people from going to Wisconsin or the Ozarks and it’s some seriously scary dystopian police state stuff you’re advocating for. 😳

You wanna talk about dumb? You are so emotionally attached to your tribe’s stance on this that you can’t even be objective about any of it.

Do you have ADHD?

I say "cops patrolling to keep the streets clear" and suddenly we are talking about defund the police instead of the fact that countries did in fact lock shit down and by doing so they did in fact drop the curve, and now I'm trying not to be sucked into a discussion of the word "cops" being a metaphor for whatever tactic a town used to enforce keeping people inside, which sure as hell wasn't the sort of paramilitary operations we are seeing whenever a BLM protest comes up. Either you have some very bad ADHD or you are just cleverly deflecting from the original point. I'm betting on ADHD.

You don't have to prevent anyone from going to the Ozarks, and you don't need cops. You just close the bars, and if they open up anyway, you pull their liquor license. Done. If they try to operate without a liquor license, you pull the license of the distributor that is selling them liquor. If they ignore that, you call up Budweiser. Somewhere along the line, someone has to fall in line - and none of it took a police officer.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #779 on: September 11, 2020, 03:12:08 PM »
Quote from: Custard on September 11, 2020, 01:56:05 PM
My paternal grandparents have both told me a great deal about it and one of my school projects sometime in the 1990s was to interview a WWII vet. I remember it well.

There is a common glow  amongst these people as a result of watching a nation unite to overcome an existential threat when they were young. It took an astonishingly horrific event (77 million people died) beyond the scope of anything any of us can fathom to foster that glow. Try again.

What's amazing about the whole thing is that only 2403 of them died on US soil, at the hands of the Japanese, but we went into Europe anyway, to fight an enemy whose flag is now proudly flown by Trump supporters.
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