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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1905 on: April 13, 2021, 05:27:48 PM »
Quote from: Custard on April 13, 2021, 03:45:38 PM
I remember clotting issues in some COVID patients being a big talking point in the earlier stages of the pandemic.
...
And now the rushed-to-market vaccine seems to be causing blood clots in some tiny percentage of otherwise healthy people, but we can’t shut down the vaccination for a few days to learn more about it?

Here are the problems with what you are saying. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is a viral vector vaccine. It is made with a disabled virus to carry immunity instructions.  In this case, a disabled adenovirus is engineered to carry immunity instructions for SARS-CoV-2. The shot does not and can not cause covid-19. Also, the blood clots in question are rare because they are oddly accompanied by low platelet counts, meaning they can't be treated with blood thinners. In the case of covid-19 related blood clots, warfarin and other blood thinners were used effectively.  Therefore, something other than the virus that causes covid-19 must be causing these rare blood clots.

The best guess at this point is that adenoviruses might be the culprit.  They might trigger a rare immune response in some people. It is a good that they are holding off while they figure it out.   

Finally, almost 7 million doses of the J&J viral vector vaccine have [been] given. There have been something like  10 (?)  cases of the rare blood clots.   
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 06:25:47 PM by illiniray »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1906 on: April 13, 2021, 05:48:49 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on April 13, 2021, 05:27:48 PM
Here are the problems with what you are saying. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is a viral vector vaccine. It is made with a disabled virus to carry immunity instructions.  In this case, a disabled adenovirus is engineered to carry immunity instructions for SARS-CoV-2. The shot does not and can not cause covid-19. Also, the blood clots in question are rare because they are oddly accompanied by low platelet counts, meaning they can't be treated with blood thinners. In the case of covid-19 related blood clots, warfarin and other blood thinners were used effectively.  Therefore, something other than the virus that causes covid-19 must be causing these rare blood clots.

The best guess at this point is that adenoviruses might be the culprit.  They might trigger a rare immune response in some people. It is a good that they are holding off while they figure it out.   

Finally, almost 7 million doses of the J&J viral vector vaccine have given. There have been something like  10 (?)  cases of the rare blood clots.   
I'm not chasing this because I'm all shot up. But what you present is a reasoned approach. I get the impression the most serious cases are women under 50, and the link may be oral contraceptive use or hormone therapy replacement. A pause to determine if this is the true subset makes sense. It may be that mRNA vaccines are the vaccine of choice for women. 
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Miniditka

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1907 on: April 13, 2021, 08:27:30 PM »
Quote from: Custard on April 13, 2021, 04:55:58 PM

You seriously don’t remember the whole blood clot thing?

Obviously I exaggerated for effect but after the population realized it was mostly affecting older people and people with metabolic disorders etc, blood clotting was the next big excuse for why we needed to continue lock down until we learned more about it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/22/coronavirus-blood-clots/

Pretty sure there have been blood clotting issues and resultant pauses with other COVID vaccines too.
I remember the blood clotting issues, but as you said, you were exaggerating (I’d say really, really exaggerating) how big of a deal people were making out of it.

Also, there’s a difference between something doctors are noticing in (according to the article) 20-40% of patients, and a side effect that literally affects one out of a million recipients and has killed AFAIK one person out of 6+ million.

And yes, the AstraZenica vaccine also has shown clotting issues in a very small # of people. This is (among other reasons) why we’re sitting on tens of millions of doses of it that we aren’t distributing. I think it’s the same type of vaccine as J&J, so it’s not surprising that similar issues are occurring.
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Miniditka

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1908 on: April 13, 2021, 08:30:02 PM »
Quote from: Mn on April 13, 2021, 05:48:49 PM
I'm not chasing this because I'm all shot up. But what you present is a reasoned approach. I get the impression the most serious cases are women under 50, and the link may be oral contraceptive use or hormone therapy replacement. A pause to determine if this is the true subset makes sense. It may be that mRNA vaccines are the vaccine of choice for women.
I think ultimately, what will happen is that the mRNA vaccines are what is going to be used by the most wealthy and developed countries, and the traditional vaccines like J&J and AstraZenica are what is going to be used by the less wealthy countries.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1909 on: April 13, 2021, 08:58:51 PM »
Quote from: Miniditka on April 13, 2021, 08:30:02 PM
I think ultimately, what will happen is that the mRNA vaccines are what is going to be used by the most wealthy and developed countries, and the traditional vaccines like J&J and AstraZenica are what is going to be used by the less wealthy countries.
These vaccines were given emergency use FDA authorizations for a pandemic. They're saving lives. It's a tough call, but it's not like there are a whole lot of alternatives. 
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1910 on: April 13, 2021, 09:09:01 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on April 13, 2021, 05:21:20 PM
Seems like government officials are doing the job we want them to.  They identified the clotting disorder pretty quickly (the reporting system is working), are taking appropriate action while they investigate and are being transparent about it.   

This is how it’s supposed to happen.

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1911 on: April 13, 2021, 09:52:17 PM »
Quote from: Miniditka on April 13, 2021, 08:27:30 PM
I remember the blood clotting issues, but as you said, you were exaggerating (I’d say really, really exaggerating) how big of a deal people were making out of it.

Also, there’s a difference between something doctors are noticing in (according to the article) 20-40% of patients, and a side effect that literally affects one out of a million recipients and has killed AFAIK one person out of 6+ million.

And yes, the AstraZenica vaccine also has shown clotting issues in a very small # of people. This is (among other reasons) why we’re sitting on tens of millions of doses of it that we aren’t distributing. I think it’s the same type of vaccine as J&J, so it’s not surprising that similar issues are occurring.

Believe it was 20-40% of SEVERE COVID infections where this was being seen. The vast majority are asymptomatic or have minor symptoms.

Clearly there is a link between some relatively small percentage of humans’ immune response to COVID/vaccines and blood clotting.

We remember it differently but I definitely recall the media, people on here and social media at large freaking out over low likelihood and even one-off cases.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1912 on: April 13, 2021, 10:59:44 PM »
Quote from: Custard on April 13, 2021, 09:52:17 PM
Believe it was 20-40% of SEVERE COVID infections where this was being seen. The vast majority are asymptomatic or have minor symptoms.

Clearly there is a link between some relatively small percentage of humans’ immune response to COVID/vaccines and blood clotting.

We remember it differently but I definitely recall the media, people on here and social media at large freaking out over low likelihood and even one-off cases.

Freaking out.  No.   

People here were simply pointing out that while most individuals fully recover after contracting COVID-19, we were beginning to see reports of COVID patients who were experiencing long-term problems after recovering from the infection.   These include “long COVID” symptoms, organ damage, blood clots and blood vessel problems and problems with mood and fatigue.   
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

We recognized the situation was fluid, the research was ongoing, and we were learning more about the virus every month. 

Now we are starting to see clinics popping up across the country to study the long-term impacts of COVID-19 and begin to care for people who suffer from lingering problems.   
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/clinics-pop-treat-lingering-covid-19-symptoms/story?id=77028573

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1913 on: April 14, 2021, 12:01:21 AM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on April 13, 2021, 09:09:01 PM
wow there's a first time for everything, hang a banner

Does Polio get to say "Hello!"? Measles?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1914 on: April 14, 2021, 12:02:59 AM »
Quote from: Mn on April 13, 2021, 05:48:49 PM
I'm not chasing this because I'm all shot up. But what you present is a reasoned approach. I get the impression the most serious cases are women under 50, and the link may be oral contraceptive use or hormone therapy replacement. A pause to determine if this is the true subset makes sense. It may be that mRNA vaccines are the vaccine of choice for women.

That's some interesting analysis. What is it doing on HQ2?
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1915 on: April 14, 2021, 07:46:08 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 14, 2021, 12:02:59 AM
That's some interesting analysis. What is it doing on HQ2?
It was a greasy little thought that slipped out after what I thought was Ray's reasoned approach.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1916 on: April 14, 2021, 08:08:45 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 14, 2021, 12:02:59 AM
That's some interesting analysis. What is it doing on HQ2?
Fauci follows HQ. Lol.
Anthony Fauci appeared on CBS News on Tuesday night to discuss J&J.
Tuesday night.

"Asked by Norah O'Donnell whether women should be particularly aware, he said yes, adding that they were now investigating whether the reaction was hormonal.

'There have been similar types of phenomena that have occurred during pregnancy,' he explained.

'Clotting abnormalities are known in women who take birth control pills, so certainly there could be a hormonal aspect to this.'

Scientists will be looking at whether birth control pills could have played a part in causing blood clots in the women who received the J&J vaccine, and fell ill."
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 08:25:16 AM by Mn »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1917 on: April 14, 2021, 09:02:41 AM »
Quote from: Mn on April 14, 2021, 08:08:45 AM
Fauci follows HQ. Lol.
Anthony Fauci appeared on CBS News on Tuesday night to discuss J&J.
Tuesday night.

"Asked by Norah O'Donnell whether women should be particularly aware, he said yes, adding that they were now investigating whether the reaction was hormonal.

'There have been similar types of phenomena that have occurred during pregnancy,' he explained.

'Clotting abnormalities are known in women who take birth control pills, so certainly there could be a hormonal aspect to this.'

Scientists will be looking at whether birth control pills could have played a part in causing blood clots in the women who received the J&J vaccine, and fell ill."

This just means 97 will call you overrated
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1918 on: April 14, 2021, 09:45:55 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 14, 2021, 09:02:41 AM
This just means 97 will call you overrated
No big deal. I'll just lobby for aotc instead. 
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fucking

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #1919 on: April 14, 2021, 08:32:59 PM »
I have a hankering for black licorice.
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