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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5475 on: July 20, 2023, 02:27:08 PM »


"The virus’ characteristics were “exactly what was expected by engineering,” wrote Edward Holmes on Slack on February 1. 

A key piece of evidence that the virus may have been engineered is the “furin cleavage site” on the “spike protein.” The special feature allows SARS-CoV-2 to bind to human receptor sites, making the virus highly infectious.

In reference to it, Holmes said, “Bob [Garry] said the insertion was the 1st thing he would add.”

I have no idea what any of that means. That's a lot of technical language I have no interest in learning..If you understand it, you can express it in laymen's terms.

Also, this is very one-sided and lacking in context. These same people have apparently said the evidence points to a natural origin. So it seems they weighed the evidence from both an engineered and a natural origin perspective.
 
« Last Edit: July 20, 2023, 04:30:09 PM by illiniray »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5476 on: July 20, 2023, 03:28:31 PM »
I have no idea what any of that means. That's a lot of technical languages I have no interest in learning..If you understand it, you can express it in laymen's terms.

Also, this is very one-sided and lacking in context. These same people have apparently said the evidence points to a natural origin. So it seems they weighed the evidence from both an engineered and a natural origin perspective.

Big10Nichi strikes again.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5477 on: July 20, 2023, 03:35:05 PM »
I have no idea what any of that means. That's a lot of technical languages I have no interest in learning..If you understand it, you can express it in laymen's terms.

Also, this is very one-sided and lacking in context. These same people have apparently said the evidence points to a natural origin. So it seems they weighed the evidence from both an engineered and a natural origin perspective.

FWIW, here's a CNN article that provides additional information on the testimony that was given at the recent House oversight hearing on the Proximal Origin paper:   
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/health/covid-origins-researchers-house-subcommittee-hearing/index.html
 

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5478 on: July 21, 2023, 09:21:02 AM »
I have no idea what any of that means. That's a lot of technical language I have no interest in learning..If you understand it, you can express it in laymen's terms.

Also, this is very one-sided and lacking in context. These same people have apparently said the evidence points to a natural origin. So it seems they weighed the evidence from both an engineered and a natural origin perspective.
 
With all of the Jon Cohen Science articles that have been posted, I assumed you were following along.

The Proximal Origin authors are primarily Kristian Andersen, Edward Holmes, Robert Garry and Andrew Rambaut. We don't hear much from Rambaut and the remaining author, Ian Lipkin, isn't talking to these guys much any more after going back to the lab leak theory and questioning the Michael Worobey papers about the wet market being the epicenter.



Marian Koopmans, Ron Fouchier and Christian Drosten were also on the initial teleconferences. They are European gain of function virologists. They received no acknowledgment in the authoring of Proximal Origin, which was rejected by Nature. A fact pointed out by an unknown individual in an email to Jon Cohen. Cohen then forwarded that email as a 'heads up' to K Andersen who forwarded it to Fauci, Holmes and Jeremy Farrar. Farrar was the director of Wellcome Trust, a British foundation involved in funding.
Re Ron Fauchier ...
"In 2011, Fouchier and Kawaoka alarmed the world by revealing they had separately modified the deadly avian H5N1 influenza virus so that it spread between ferrets. Advocates of such gain of function (GOF) studies say they can help public health experts better understand how viruses might spread and plan for pandemics. But by enabling the bird virus to more easily spread among mammals, the experiments also raised fears that the pathogen could jump to humans. And critics of the work worried that such a souped-up virus could spark a pandemic if it escaped from a lab or was intentionally released by a bioterrorist. After extensive discussion about whether the two studies should even be published (they ultimately were) and a voluntary moratorium by the two labs, the experiments resumed in 2013 under new U.S. oversight rules."
https://www.science.org/content/article/exclusive-controversial-experiments-make-bird-flu-more-risky-poised-resume

The furin cleavage site does what is in the post. It makes the virus more infectious.
The spike protein mediates the viral entry to the cells as the 1st step in viral entry.
Inserting the furin cleavage site on the spike protein is what makes the virus so infectious.

This explains E Holmes comment that the virus characteristics were "exactly what was expected by enginering."
And Bob Garry said "the insertion was the 1st thing he would add."
And K Andersen agreed saying "for sure".
And Garry said a graduate student could do it.
The early drafts of Proximal Origin described the furin cleavage site insertion as "optimal". But some how, the congressional testimony has changed to the optimal insertion is really only a "sub-optimal" insertion even tho it's caused an estimated 7-15, or more, million deaths.
Somebody needs to question this.

One of the comments in Slack communications was to the effect that if this would be viewed as a lab leak, then that would open the door to other outbreaks as being possible lab leaks.
Would this cause K Andersen and R Garry's work in the Ebola outbreak to be revisited ?

K Andersen, on the USAID early warning prediction program ......
"

And maybe we can put an end to the rationale used to support a zoonotic origin that there have been previous zoonotic events. There have also been previous lab leaks.
This is a funding and the future of gain of function research issue.
In true scientific discussions, why would they use burner phones to discuss the 'Proximal Origin' ?

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5479 on: July 21, 2023, 09:25:37 AM »
FWIW, here's a CNN article that provides additional information on the testimony that was given at the recent House oversight hearing on the Proximal Origin paper:   
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/health/covid-origins-researchers-house-subcommittee-hearing/index.html
 
Should I ? 😂

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5480 on: July 21, 2023, 09:47:23 AM »
It must be really, really exhausting believing everything that doesn't confirm your political preconception is some conspiracy.

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5481 on: July 21, 2023, 10:17:57 AM »
It must be really, really exhausting believing everything that doesn't confirm your political preconception is some conspiracy.

Yes, much easier to bury your head in the sand and ignore the possibilities.
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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5482 on: July 21, 2023, 10:25:55 AM »
When I see someone doing that I'll let them know you think that.

Is it possible it was a lab leak?  Yes, have never said otherwise.  Even these nefarious scientists have acknowledged it over and over, not that any of the theorists are actually listening to them.  This conspiracy theory that we know it was a lab leak (started as a bioweapon, but as conspiracy theories do it changed) and have covered that up is not found in evidence.  If you want to give it credence go ahead, that doesn't tell me anything about you and Mn that I didn't know already.

The people whose words Mn is using to evidence his theory have made it clear they do not agree with him.  But as is common with this sort of thing, evidence undercutting the theory is ACTUALLY evidence that there's an even bigger cover up conspiracy!  It's among the most common elements of this sort of thing.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2023, 10:29:20 AM by spark mandrill »

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5483 on: July 21, 2023, 11:43:16 AM »
When I see someone doing that I'll let them know you think that.

Is it possible it was a lab leak?  Yes, have never said otherwise.  Even these nefarious scientists have acknowledged it over and over, not that any of the theorists are actually listening to them.  This conspiracy theory that we know it was a lab leak (started as a bioweapon, but as conspiracy theories do it changed) and have covered that up is not found in evidence.  If you want to give it credence go ahead, that doesn't tell me anything about you and Mn that I didn't know already.

While he can certainly speak for himself, I have seen nothing to believe that Mn has said it is a given that it was a "lab leak."

Does he believe that these nefarious scientists do not want to explore the possibility that it was a "lab leak," yeah, I think that is a fair reading of his work. Mn, again, can certainly speak for himself, but this is what I get from his postings.


The people whose words Mn is using to evidence his theory have made it clear they do not agree with him.  But as is common with this sort of thing, evidence undercutting the theory is ACTUALLY evidence that there's an even bigger cover up conspiracy!  It's among the most common elements of this sort of thing.

I think you are a) putting words in Mn's mouth and b) failing to understand that the stuff Mn is posting here seems to indicate that certain esteemed members of the scientific community appear to have not wanted, publicly, to "follow the science" for fear of validating the conspiracy theorists. Again, Mn can speak for himself but this is what I am getting from his postings.

Now, I admit I may be biased, given that I had a leisurely breakfast with Mn in Minnesota, where we chatted on issues large and small, probably close to 2 years ago now.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5484 on: July 21, 2023, 11:57:37 AM »
While he can certainly speak for himself, I have seen nothing to believe that Mn has said it is a given that it was a "lab leak."

Does he believe that these nefarious scientists do not want to explore the possibility that it was a "lab leak," yeah, I think that is a fair reading of his work. Mn, again, can certainly speak for himself, but this is what I get from his postings.


I think you are a) putting words in Mn's mouth and b) failing to understand that the stuff Mn is posting here seems to indicate that certain esteemed members of the scientific community appear to have not wanted, publicly, to "follow the science" for fear of validating the conspiracy theorists. Again, Mn can speak for himself but this is what I am getting from his postings.

Now, I admit I may be biased, given that I had a leisurely breakfast with Mn in Minnesota, where we chatted on issues large and small, probably close to 2 years ago now.
Yes.
And once the zoonotic origin theory was firmly planted, lab leak discussion was censored and those suggesting the possibility were labeled 'conspiracy theorists'.

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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5485 on: July 21, 2023, 12:11:12 PM »
It must be really, really exhausting believing everything that doesn't confirm your political preconception is some conspiracy.


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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5486 on: July 21, 2023, 12:15:55 PM »
While he can certainly speak for himself, I have seen nothing to believe that Mn has said it is a given that it was a "lab leak."

Does he believe that these nefarious scientists do not want to explore the possibility that it was a "lab leak," yeah, I think that is a fair reading of his work. Mn, again, can certainly speak for himself, but this is what I get from his postings.

What Mn is doing - on this and many other topics - is continuing the undercurrent of tin foil hat paranoia that is causing the world a ton of grief. I can't really blame Mn, he's just swept under the current caused by the FOX/OAN of the world who are exploiting the feeble minded and keeping the crazy going.

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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5487 on: July 21, 2023, 12:20:45 PM »
The Republican Lab-Leak Circus Makes One Important Point 

'Lab-Leak' has too many meanings.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/07/covid-lab-leak-congress-investigation/674690
« Last Edit: July 21, 2023, 12:29:41 PM by alum74 »

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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5488 on: July 21, 2023, 01:08:44 PM »
While he can certainly speak for himself, I have seen nothing to believe that Mn has said it is a given that it was a "lab leak."

Does he believe that these nefarious scientists do not want to explore the possibility that it was a "lab leak," yeah, I think that is a fair reading of his work. Mn, again, can certainly speak for himself, but this is what I get from his postings.


I think you are a) putting words in Mn's mouth and b) failing to understand that the stuff Mn is posting here seems to indicate that certain esteemed members of the scientific community appear to have not wanted, publicly, to "follow the science" for fear of validating the conspiracy theorists. Again, Mn can speak for himself but this is what I am getting from his postings.

Now, I admit I may be biased, given that I had a leisurely breakfast with Mn in Minnesota, where we chatted on issues large and small, probably close to 2 years ago now.

Correct - despite the evidence, he believes these nefarious scientists are lying.  There's a name for a theory you believe despite the evidence, what is it?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5489 on: July 21, 2023, 01:27:14 PM »
Correct - despite the evidence, he believes these nefarious scientists are lying.  There's a name for a theory you believe despite the evidence, what is it?

Well, he is using their own words in previously unreleased documents.

"Despite the evidence?" The fucking Commie Chinese Scum won't cooperate. I know you are a big fan of theirs, but come on....
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