WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

alum74

2661
+1442/-124

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #345 on: June 22, 2020, 10:35:08 AM »

Quote from: fucking on June 21, 2020, 08:23:36 PM

Quote from: ILLove1997 on June 21, 2020, 04:35:51 PM
how concerned were they about H1N1?

It's too bad you tried to troll on this particular topic because I've been writing about Influenza for years, including on many occasions within the Cesspool.

The answer, of course, is extremely concerned — and diligent — about the severity of any seasonal mutation.

In fact, much more concerned than the scope of your unsurprisingly ignorant question. Because, of course, it's not just H1N1 that poses a pandemic threat.

The 1968 pandemic was H3N2. 1957's was H2N2.

Unfortunately we’ve had another pandemic spreading throughout our country for the last 20-30 years: distortion and willful ignorance. We’ve seen examples of it related to the science of climate change, vaccinations and GMOs.

Dr. Anthony Fauci: "One of the problems we face in the United States is that unfortunately, there is a combination of an anti-science bias that people are - for reasons that sometimes are, you know, inconceivable and not understandable - they just don't believe science and they don't believe authority."
https://www.sciencealert.com/fauci-is-worried-about-anti-science-bias-in-the-us-as-stay-at-home-orders-are-thwarted

When a vaccine becomes available for COVID-19, I’ll be watching to see if the anti-vaxxers hook up with the COVID hoaxers/contrarians to oppose vaccination programs at the local level.

Anti-Vaccine Activists Latch Onto Coronavirus To Bolster Their Movement
https://khn.org/news/anti-vaccine-activists-latch-onto-coronavirus-to-bolster-their-movement/

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alum74

2661
+1442/-124

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #346 on: June 22, 2020, 10:59:54 AM »

Quote from: Mn on June 22, 2020, 08:58:23 AM

Quote from: alum74 on June 21, 2020, 07:11:50 PM
For those interested, here’s a NPR story on the status of coronavirus contact tracing efforts at the state level:

As States Reopen, Do They Have The Workforce They Need To Stop Coronavirus Outbreaks?
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/18/879787448/as-states-reopen-do-they-have-the-workforce-they-need-to-stop-coronavirus-outbre

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-apply-contact-tracer-work-remotely-with-benefits-2020-5
A contact tracer in NYC can make a $57,000 salary with benefits and work remotely.

https://work.chron.com/starting-wage-nypd-8547.html
New officers in the NYPD receive a starting base salary of $42,500 a year.

And for how the people who start at more than an NYPD officer are doing in their stay at home phone jobs .....
https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/06/20/new-york-city-hired-3000-workers-contact-tracing-not-going-well
Perry Halkitis, dean of the School of Public Health at Rutgers University, which is guiding an effort to bring on thousands of tracers in New Jersey, called New York City’s 35% rate for eliciting contacts “very bad.”

“For each person, you should be in touch with 75% of their contacts within a day,” he said.

NYPD Salary and Benefits
"A career with the NYPD means receiving a reliable benefits package that includes paid vacation, paid sick leave, and retirement funds. In addition to a salary, compensation includes longevity pay, holiday pay, and uniform allowance, along with opportunities for overtime.

Salary
Starting salary: $42,500
Salary after 5 ½ years: $85,292.
Including holiday pay, longevity pay, uniform allowance, night differential and overtime, police officers may potentially earn over $100,000 per year.

Additional Benefits
27 Paid vacation days after 5 years of service
Unlimited sick leave with full pay
Selection of medical benefit packages
Prescription, dental, and vision coverage
Annuity fund
Deferred Compensation Plan, 401K and I.R.A.
Optional retirement at one half salary after 22 years of service
Annual $12,000 Variable Supplement Fund (upon retirement)
Excellent promotional opportunities
Promotional Opportunities
The Department offers promotional exams periodically for the ranks of Sergeant, Lieutenant, and Captain. Promotion to detective, as well as all ranks above Captain, are based upon merit. Each of these ranks afford members the opportunity to earn significantly higher salaries.

Military Veterans
The NYPD has a special place for those who have served, and we value the training, skills and management experience of military personnel, which is one of the main reasons we actively recruit veterans.

Additional benefits available to military veterans include:

Veterans can earn GI Bill benefits in addition to their salary during their first two years.
Police Officer Exam scores are kept on file indefinitely. Upon leaving the U.S. Armed Forces, veterans have 6 months to start the hiring process.
Veterans can add 4 years to the maximum hiring age, or 6 years if they served during war or national emergency. This applies only to veterans under age 40.
Veterans can buy back three years of their military time to be applied to their NYPD retirement.
Officers who are active reservists are allowed 30 paid military days per year, in addition to their vacation time.

Educational Opportunities
Joining the NYPD is not only a great way to launch a career, it’s a great way to enhance your education. Here are just some of the benefits:

Full salary and benefits are available on the first day of academy training.
Earn up to 29 college credits from your academy training that can go toward a degree.
Several institutions offer full or partial scholarships to NYPD members."

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/careers/police-officers/po-benefits.page

Could the starting salary be higher? Of course. But most officer candidates are thinking long-term career and looking at the total compensation package.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 11:02:09 AM by alum74 »

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Somewhere in Mn

12570
+178/-2590

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #347 on: June 22, 2020, 11:41:53 AM »

Coronavirus News: NYPD announces 43rd COVID-19 death in department

.241 NYPD officers have died from 9/11 illnesses, 10 times the number killed in World Trade Center attack

https://time.com/5702036/10th-police-suicide-nypd-new-york-city/
The rate of suicides among NYPD police officers is already higher than for other residents of New York City. The rate of suicides for uniformed NYPD personnel is 13.8 per 100,000 people (according to 2017 data) while for the city’s population overall it is 6.7 per 100,000 (according to 2016 data). Some officers and experts say that on-the-job trauma and stress, combined with a culture of stigmatizing mental illness, create conditions that are dangerous to officers’ mental health.

Seems like a fair trade for those benefits after 5 years. Especially with a mayor backing you 100%.

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alum74

2661
+1442/-124

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #348 on: June 22, 2020, 12:46:12 PM »

Quote from: Mn on June 22, 2020, 11:41:53 AM

Coronavirus News: NYPD announces 43rd COVID-19 death in department

.241 NYPD officers have died from 9/11 illnesses, 10 times the number killed in World Trade Center attack

https://time.com/5702036/10th-police-suicide-nypd-new-york-city/
The rate of suicides among NYPD police officers is already higher than for other residents of New York City. The rate of suicides for uniformed NYPD personnel is 13.8 per 100,000 people (according to 2017 data) while for the city’s population overall it is 6.7 per 100,000 (according to 2016 data). Some officers and experts say that on-the-job trauma and stress, combined with a culture of stigmatizing mental illness, create conditions that are dangerous to officers’ mental health.

Seems like a fair trade for those benefits after 5 years. Especially with a mayor backing you 100%.

"Some officers and experts say that on-the-job trauma and stress, combined with a culture of stigmatizing mental illness, create conditions that are dangerous to officers’ mental health."

Once again. I think starting salaries should be higher, but that's not going to solve issues in the workplace. Sounds like the NYC mayor, police department and union should be making mental health/suicide prevention for police officers a bigger priority. Looks like they could be doing more to help.

After a Rash of Police Suicides, NYC Looks to Bolster Mental Health Services
https://www.thetrace.org/2019/09/police-suicide-new-york-mental-health-bill-city-council/

‘These suicides have been ridiculous’: NYPD lieutenant speaks
https://www.amny.com/opinion/nypd-suicides-mental-health-1-35562951/

Exclusive: NYPD Officer Says Department’s Effort To Improve Mental Health, Prevent Suicides Is A Publicity Stunt
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/11/01/nypd-mental-health-publicity-stunt/

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murphstahoe

8055
+1968/-142

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #349 on: June 22, 2020, 01:02:42 PM »

Quote from: Custard on June 20, 2020, 07:26:22 PM

I think we are both free thinkers who choose to live life on our own terms as much as possible. I usually try to reconcile what I’ve been told with what I observe in order to come to an opinion on a given topic.

My opinions are almost always fluid dependent on new information and observations, and my understanding of their relationship to one another.

As of right now there seem to be some gaping holes in what passes for the official story of this pandemic and it’s supposed severity. Our government and media has a history of never letting a crisis go to waste, and I think this is almost certainly another example of that. To what degree I am uncertain.

Was it good to be cautious? Yes, in my opinion.

Was it good to respect others and stay home whenever possible and wear a mask when out? Yes, in my opinion.

Has this had a terrible impact on people across the globe? Yes, that’s a fact.

Should we close everything down every time a novel virus appears? I don’t believe so, but the precedent has kind of been set.

Have a lot of people been crying wolf in this country for 3.5 months when the wolf seems to be more akin to a house dog with rabies? Yes, in my opinion.

Had this been used as a political football to the point of sickening excess? Yes, in my opinion.

Do I know vastly more vulnerable people that have been economically devastated or severely damaged than have been impacted by the actual virus? Yes, exponentially, without question.

I have always applauded your frugal and minimalist lifestyle, reusing and repurposing and literally consuming other folks’ castoff goods and foods.

I think you probably know as well as I do that COVID-19 is probably the 9/11 of this era. Yet I also realize you have an unspoken obligation to stand in solidarity with your fellow moral high ground seeking, virtue signaling, dazzling Urbanites.

Even if you look at long term deaths from exposure to debris from 9/11 it wasn't 120k

The biggest reason to me, to get this thing tamped down NOW is that if we stay at current levels, or increase a little bit - it will bleed into the 2020-2021 school year. If we nailed this thing in March/April and just put it down, we could be looking at close to a normal school year - maybe we have masks, manipulate classes a bit so kids are working with fewer overall classmates - but we'd be open.

If we are at the current rate of infection to start the school year, it's gonna be a mess.

That has huge implications up and down the line. Inconsistent school hours really put a pinch on people's ability to work - either businesses that are open or work from home. Longer term, this lack of peer time is really bad for children, and the lack of school time for the pre-k through 2nd grade cohort is brutal.

10 years from now will be the time to short the stock market when kids who are "graduating" today are starting to get into roles of responsibility, and on average are 10-15% less prepared than typical.

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Custard

12203
+235/-2953

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #350 on: June 22, 2020, 01:02:48 PM »

Quote from: alum74 on June 22, 2020, 10:35:08 AM

Quote from: fucking on June 21, 2020, 08:23:36 PM
Quote from: ILLove1997 on June 21, 2020, 04:35:51 PM
how concerned were they about H1N1?

It's too bad you tried to troll on this particular topic because I've been writing about Influenza for years, including on many occasions within the Cesspool.

The answer, of course, is extremely concerned — and diligent — about the severity of any seasonal mutation.

In fact, much more concerned than the scope of your unsurprisingly ignorant question. Because, of course, it's not just H1N1 that poses a pandemic threat.

The 1968 pandemic was H3N2. 1957's was H2N2.

Unfortunately we’ve had another pandemic spreading throughout our country for the last 20-30 years: distortion and willful ignorance. We’ve seen examples of it related to the science of climate change, vaccinations and GMOs.

Dr. Anthony Fauci: "One of the problems we face in the United States is that unfortunately, there is a combination of an anti-science bias that people are - for reasons that sometimes are, you know, inconceivable and not understandable - they just don't believe science and they don't believe authority."
https://www.sciencealert.com/fauci-is-worried-about-anti-science-bias-in-the-us-as-stay-at-home-orders-are-thwarted

When a vaccine becomes available for COVID-19, I’ll be watching to see if the anti-vaxxers hook up with the COVID hoaxers/contrarians to oppose vaccination programs at the local level.

Anti-Vaccine Activists Latch Onto Coronavirus To Bolster Their Movement
https://khn.org/news/anti-vaccine-activists-latch-onto-coronavirus-to-bolster-their-movement/

What an odd time to say something like:

“They don’t believe authority”

I know there are relatively small segments of people who are anti-science in certain ways. For instance I have creationist relatives who also believe/accept pretty much every other science.

That’s a lot different than someone who is actively anti-science across the spectrum and I don’t know any of those at all, nor have even really heard of any.

But I think there is a lot of suspect science being put forth as settled science right now regarding COVID-19 and a lot of people just aren’t buying it.

“Anti-science“ is just another term made up to shame people who don’t blindly toe the line or “listen to authority”

Much of scientific discovery can be manipulated and distorted like any other statistic. It’s not concrete and it can and often is subject to extreme bias.

The Warren Commission used science to sell Americans that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman in JFK’s assassination and the magic bullet theory.

I think it’s ok to question “authority” when your own eyes and ears tell you something completely different than the party line. I fear for a world when that no longer exists.

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Poster Boy for White Male Indifference

AOTC on basically everything measurable

“Custard, you were RIGHT!” -Tempo

murphstahoe

8055
+1968/-142

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #351 on: June 22, 2020, 01:17:41 PM »

Quote from: Mn on June 22, 2020, 08:58:23 AM

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-apply-contact-tracer-work-remotely-with-benefits-2020-5
A contact tracer in NYC can make a $57,000 salary with benefits and work remotely.

https://work.chron.com/starting-wage-nypd-8547.html
New officers in the NYPD receive a starting base salary of $42,500 a year.

And for how the people who start at more than an NYPD officer are doing in their stay at home phone jobs .....
https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/06/20/new-york-city-hired-3000-workers-contact-tracing-not-going-well
Perry Halkitis, dean of the School of Public Health at Rutgers University, which is guiding an effort to bring on thousands of tracers in New Jersey, called New York City’s 35% rate for eliciting contacts “very bad.”

“For each person, you should be in touch with 75% of their contacts within a day,” he said.

This is a pretty brutal comparison. The contract tracing thing is a gig with no upward mobility, stability, long term prospects, and probably crappy benefits. Even if your numbers are correct.

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murphstahoe

8055
+1968/-142

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #352 on: June 22, 2020, 01:23:37 PM »

Quote from: Mn on June 22, 2020, 11:41:53 AM

Coronavirus News: NYPD announces 43rd COVID-19 death in department

.241 NYPD officers have died from 9/11 illnesses, 10 times the number killed in World Trade Center attack

https://time.com/5702036/10th-police-suicide-nypd-new-york-city/
The rate of suicides among NYPD police officers is already higher than for other residents of New York City. The rate of suicides for uniformed NYPD personnel is 13.8 per 100,000 people (according to 2017 data) while for the city’s population overall it is 6.7 per 100,000 (according to 2016 data). Some officers and experts say that on-the-job trauma and stress, combined with a culture of stigmatizing mental illness, create conditions that are dangerous to officers’ mental health.

Seems like a fair trade for those benefits after 5 years. Especially with a mayor backing you 100%.

Does being a cop cause people to commit suicide - or do people with suicidal tendencies gravitate towards being a cop?

https://xkcd.com/552/

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murphstahoe

8055
+1968/-142

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #353 on: June 22, 2020, 01:28:20 PM »

Quote from: Custard on June 22, 2020, 01:02:48 PM

What an odd time to say something like:

“They don’t believe authority”

I know there are relatively small segments of people who are anti-science in certain ways. For instance I have creationist relatives who also believe/accept pretty much every other science.

That’s a lot different than someone who is actively anti-science across the spectrum and I don’t know any of those at all, nor have even really heard of any.

But I think there is a lot of suspect science being put forth as settled science right now regarding COVID-19 and a lot of people just aren’t buying it.

“Anti-science“ is just another term made up to shame people who don’t blindly toe the line or “listen to authority”

Much of scientific discovery can be manipulated and distorted like any other statistic. It’s not concrete and it can and often is subject to extreme bias.

The Warren Commission used science to sell Americans that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman in JFK’s assassination and the magic bullet theory.

I think it’s ok to question “authority” when your own eyes and ears tell you something completely different than the party line. I fear for a world when that no longer exists.

This is boilerplate anti-science.

If scientific discovery is manipulated - then it isn't science. What you describe is "not trusting people" as opposed to "not trusting science". The field of science is very meta - psychology is a science as well, and it understands that people will use nefarious motives to achieve goals. That's why the fields of science have put in place backstops against this - peer review, etc...

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Custard

12203
+235/-2953

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #354 on: June 22, 2020, 02:35:05 PM »

You do realize your strange juxtaposition of “peer reviewed science” with rapidly developing news stories from hundreds of labs reporting different findings on a mutating virus in real time, right?

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Poster Boy for White Male Indifference

AOTC on basically everything measurable

“Custard, you were RIGHT!” -Tempo

fucking

3174
+223/-1146
Who Doesn't?

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #355 on: June 22, 2020, 02:41:47 PM »

Quote from: Custard on June 22, 2020, 01:02:48 PM

I think it’s ok to question “authority” when your own eyes and ears tell you something completely different than the party line.

Keep your gubmint data off my anecdotal evidence!

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illinicalvin

1487
+517/-43

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #356 on: June 22, 2020, 03:13:59 PM »

Quote from: murphstahoe on June 22, 2020, 01:28:20 PM

This is boilerplate anti-science.

If scientific discovery is manipulated - then it isn't science. What you describe is "not trusting people" as opposed to "not trusting science". The field of science is very meta - psychology is a science as well, and it understands that people will use nefarious motives to achieve goals. That's why the fields of science have put in place backstops against this - peer review, etc...

What astounds me here is that we largely insulate and remove a lot of scientific personnel and organizations from political turnover because we know politics should be kept separate from science. Dr. Fauci hasn't been in his job through four party shifts because he's a political hack, so treating him like The Big Bad Government is...weird. These morons have literally trusted the party controlling the executive branch, Senate, and effectively the judiciary over a non-partisan organization whose sustainability is dependent on effectively applying the scientific method to public health.

We haven't contained the virus as effectively as pretty much every other first-world country. We sabotage ourselves and then claim the government can't solve problems that effective government, quite clearly, can.

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illinicalvin

1487
+517/-43

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #357 on: June 22, 2020, 03:16:13 PM »

Quote from: Custard on June 22, 2020, 02:35:05 PM

You do realize your strange juxtaposition of “peer reviewed science” with rapidly developing news stories from hundreds of labs reporting different findings on a mutating virus in real time, right?

Peer review was offered as one control on the misuse of science. There are others, as I'm sure you're well aware.

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murphstahoe

8055
+1968/-142

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #358 on: June 22, 2020, 03:25:40 PM »

Quote from: Custard on June 22, 2020, 02:35:05 PM

You do realize your strange juxtaposition of “peer reviewed science” with rapidly developing news stories from hundreds of labs reporting different findings on a mutating virus in real time, right?

Clearly you're not a golfer.

This is what puts us in this pickle. We run experiments, we get data, we try to figure out what the data tells us, we understand things like sample sizes.

Trump will look at a study that a researcher who is intellectually rigorous and says "this data is preliminary" and he'll latch onto the "preliminary" part and say the study is worthless. Then there will be a quack who says he cured COVID with hydroxychloroquine and instead of putting skepticism upon that because it's clear to anyone with any understanding of scientific process that this sample size is meaningless and the researcher has no bonafides - he trumpets that the problem is solved because it's an easy way to pretend there is no problem.

This rewards quacks and handicaps real researchers who do diligence and carry a high standard of honesty.

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Somewhere in Mn

12570
+178/-2590

Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

« Reply #359 on: June 22, 2020, 03:43:58 PM »

Quote from: murphstahoe on June 22, 2020, 01:17:41 PM

Quote from: Mn on June 22, 2020, 08:58:23 AM

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-apply-contact-tracer-work-remotely-with-benefits-2020-5
A contact tracer in NYC can make a $57,000 salary with benefits and work remotely.

https://work.chron.com/starting-wage-nypd-8547.html
New officers in the NYPD receive a starting base salary of $42,500 a year.

And for how the people who start at more than an NYPD officer are doing in their stay at home phone jobs .....
https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/06/20/new-york-city-hired-3000-workers-contact-tracing-not-going-well
Perry Halkitis, dean of the School of Public Health at Rutgers University, which is guiding an effort to bring on thousands of tracers in New Jersey, called New York City’s 35% rate for eliciting contacts “very bad.”

“For each person, you should be in touch with 75% of their contacts within a day,” he said.

This is a pretty brutal comparison. The contract tracing thing is a gig with no upward mobility, stability, long term prospects, and probably crappy benefits. Even if your numbers are correct.

They're not my numbers.
And they don't get to go into burning buildings, respond to fatal car accidents, have fun playing cops and robbers with real, live guns, work rotating shifts and holidays and weekends. They miss out on all that exciting stuff and sit at home and be relatively non-productive.

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