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WTF is wrong with Minnesota?

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #600 on: January 13, 2026, 07:07:48 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 12, 2026, 04:22:17 PM
Supposedly from a lawyer. Interesting:

There seems to be a lot of Keyboard attorneys.online today. So, as an actual attorney, I'd like to cite actual law. The ICE officer in MN violated both protocol and case law.

1) officers are not allowed to fire into a moving vehicle
2) lethal force is not allowed to prevent someone from fleeing
3) case law is clear, an officer cannot intentionally place himself in front of a vehicle and then allege self defense

At best, this officer acted with a reckless disregard for public safety and is guilty of negligent homicide.

Federal agents do not have blanket immunity from state laws or criminal prosecution. They can be prosecuted by state authorities for violating state laws if their actions were unauthorized, unlawful, or unreasonable, even if they were on duty.

The concept governing this is called Supremacy Clause immunity. Federal agents are generally immune from state prosecution only if their actions were:bAuthorized under federal law; and
"Necessary and proper" to fulfill their federal duties.

If a federal agent is charged in state court, they can petition to have their case "removed" to federal court. In federal court, the judge would then determine whether the agent's actions met the "necessary and proper" standard.

If the court finds the agent was acting within the reasonable confines of their duties, the state charges will be dismissed.

If not, the state prosecution can proceed in federal court, applying state substantive law. It is unlikely any judge would find his behavior necessary and reasonable. The mere fact that no other officer present unholstered their weapon and appear shocked he fired towards them reinforces that fact.

Estate of Starks v. Enyart, 5 F.3d 230 (7th Cir. 1993) Seventh Circuit – foundational case facts: Officer stepped in front of a slowly moving vehicle and then shot the driver, claiming fear for his life. Holding (paraphrased) “An officer may not unreasonably create a physically threatening situation and then use deadly force to escape it.”

Adams v. Speers, 473 F.3d 989 (9th Cir. 2007) Ninth Circuit Facts: Officer jumped in front of a vehicle during a stop and then fired. Holding: An officer cannot provoke a confrontation and then rely on the danger they created to justify deadly force. Key language: The court emphasized that reasonableness includes the officer’s own tactical decisions leading up to the shooting.

Thompson v. Hubbard, 257 F.3d 896 (8th Cir. 2001) Eighth Circuit Key point: The court rejected summary judgment for officers where evidence showed the officer moved into the vehicle’s path, creating the perceived threat.

Abraham v. Raso, 183 F.3d 279 (3d Cir. 1999)
Third Circuit Facts: Off-duty officer shot a fleeing driver. Holding: The court stressed that pre-seizure conduct matters and that officers cannot rely solely on the “split second” framing if their own actions escalated the situation.
 
Kirby v. Duva, 530 F.3d 475 (6th Cir. 2008)
Holding: Deadly force may be unconstitutional where:
-The officer fired into a moving vehicle
-The officer could have stepped aside
-The threat was self-created
The Sixth Circuit explicitly rejected the idea that a moving car automatically justifies gunfire.

Adams v. Speers, 473 F.3d 989 (9th Cir. 2007) Holding: An officer may not intentionally place himself in danger and then use deadly force to neutralize the danger he created — including firing into a vehicle. The Ninth Circuit emphasized tactical disengagement as the constitutional expectation.

Training & Policy Alignment (Courts Care About This) Many courts note that modern police training instructs:
-Do not fire into moving vehicles
-Do not use deadly force to stop a fleeing car
-Disengage and contain instead
Courts treat violations of training as evidence of unreasonableness, even if not dispositive.

Copied and pasted.
The lawyer mentions cases that address the officer putting himself in danger.
Where is the agent in this image ?
He certainly doesn't appear in it, but becomes visible after Good changed the orientation of the vehicle after backing up.
A lawyer with over 20 years as a DOJ prosecutor cites this image and what he views to be applicable SCOTUS decisions.



And the DOJ prosecutor's closing ....
« Last Edit: January 13, 2026, 07:12:50 AM by No one in Mn »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #601 on: January 13, 2026, 08:22:41 AM »
Barb McQuade, a lawyer, posts "Retired Agent Greg Stejskal writes, Minnesota has its own duty to investigate a homicide occurring in its jurisdiction. FBI has no right to freeze out state investigators."

What I read is that the state can investigate all they want and that the FBI has no obligation to include the state in their investigation.

Barb McQuade.
UMich Law prof; former US Atty EDMI; MSNOW legal analyst;
McQuade was appointed as US Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan by Obama and resigned when Trump took office.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #602 on: January 13, 2026, 08:28:33 AM »
Gov Walz signed this statute into effect.
609.066 AUTHORIZED USE OF DEADLY FORCE BY PEACE OFFICERS

« Last Edit: January 13, 2026, 08:30:07 AM by No one in Mn »
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #603 on: January 13, 2026, 08:30:44 AM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 13, 2026, 05:57:28 AM
A front page headline in today's fishwrap:

Iranians are open to talks with U.S.

The front page also includes articles concerning Minnesota government officials being open to talks regarding cooperation between state and federal law enforcement.
Just kidding. There aren't any of these.

We had a deal with the Iranians, but Desr Leader scrapped it because “the black guy did it!”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #604 on: January 13, 2026, 10:09:46 AM »
Quote from: Three Card MNte on January 13, 2026, 08:30:44 AM
We had a deal with the Iranians, but Desr Leader scrapped it because “the black guy did it!”

Thought we created this mess in 1953?
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #605 on: January 13, 2026, 10:11:46 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 12, 2026, 04:22:17 PM
Supposedly from a lawyer. Interesting:

There seems to be a lot of Keyboard attorneys.online today. So, as an actual attorney, I'd like to cite actual law. The ICE officer in MN violated both protocol and case law.

1) officers are not allowed to fire into a moving vehicle
2) lethal force is not allowed to prevent someone from fleeing
3) case law is clear, an officer cannot intentionally place himself in front of a vehicle and then allege self defense

At best, this officer acted with a reckless disregard for public safety and is guilty of negligent homicide.

Federal agents do not have blanket immunity from state laws or criminal prosecution. They can be prosecuted by state authorities for violating state laws if their actions were unauthorized, unlawful, or unreasonable, even if they were on duty.

The concept governing this is called Supremacy Clause immunity. Federal agents are generally immune from state prosecution only if their actions were:bAuthorized under federal law; and
"Necessary and proper" to fulfill their federal duties.

If a federal agent is charged in state court, they can petition to have their case "removed" to federal court. In federal court, the judge would then determine whether the agent's actions met the "necessary and proper" standard.

If the court finds the agent was acting within the reasonable confines of their duties, the state charges will be dismissed.

If not, the state prosecution can proceed in federal court, applying state substantive law. It is unlikely any judge would find his behavior necessary and reasonable. The mere fact that no other officer present unholstered their weapon and appear shocked he fired towards them reinforces that fact.

Estate of Starks v. Enyart, 5 F.3d 230 (7th Cir. 1993) Seventh Circuit – foundational case facts: Officer stepped in front of a slowly moving vehicle and then shot the driver, claiming fear for his life. Holding (paraphrased) “An officer may not unreasonably create a physically threatening situation and then use deadly force to escape it.”

Adams v. Speers, 473 F.3d 989 (9th Cir. 2007) Ninth Circuit Facts: Officer jumped in front of a vehicle during a stop and then fired. Holding: An officer cannot provoke a confrontation and then rely on the danger they created to justify deadly force. Key language: The court emphasized that reasonableness includes the officer’s own tactical decisions leading up to the shooting.

Thompson v. Hubbard, 257 F.3d 896 (8th Cir. 2001) Eighth Circuit Key point: The court rejected summary judgment for officers where evidence showed the officer moved into the vehicle’s path, creating the perceived threat.

Abraham v. Raso, 183 F.3d 279 (3d Cir. 1999)
Third Circuit Facts: Off-duty officer shot a fleeing driver. Holding: The court stressed that pre-seizure conduct matters and that officers cannot rely solely on the “split second” framing if their own actions escalated the situation.
 
Kirby v. Duva, 530 F.3d 475 (6th Cir. 2008)
Holding: Deadly force may be unconstitutional where:
-The officer fired into a moving vehicle
-The officer could have stepped aside
-The threat was self-created
The Sixth Circuit explicitly rejected the idea that a moving car automatically justifies gunfire.

Adams v. Speers, 473 F.3d 989 (9th Cir. 2007) Holding: An officer may not intentionally place himself in danger and then use deadly force to neutralize the danger he created — including firing into a vehicle. The Ninth Circuit emphasized tactical disengagement as the constitutional expectation.

Training & Policy Alignment (Courts Care About This) Many courts note that modern police training instructs:
-Do not fire into moving vehicles
-Do not use deadly force to stop a fleeing car
-Disengage and contain instead
Courts treat violations of training as evidence of unreasonableness, even if not dispositive.

Copied and pasted.

Did you get this from a Facebook post ?
A Facebook post is what I see if I look at Starks vs Enyart sites.
A "lawyer" can be a real estate or divorce lawyer who lives next door.

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #606 on: January 13, 2026, 10:31:39 AM »
Quote from: Custard on January 13, 2026, 10:09:46 AM
Thought we created this mess in 1953?

Is this supposed to be a “gotcha?”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #607 on: January 13, 2026, 11:32:02 AM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 13, 2026, 05:57:28 AM
A front page headline in today's fishwrap:

Iranians are open to talks with U.S.


They figure we are kindred souls now
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #608 on: January 13, 2026, 05:26:38 PM »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #609 on: January 14, 2026, 11:13:03 AM »
I didn't see anyone asking for the agent's hospital records, even tho they could be protected under HIPAA.
Did the left know that he was hit ? 🤔

AI.
Yes, Jonathan Ross suffered internal bleeding.This refers to Jonathan Ross, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agent involved in the fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Good during an incident in Minneapolis on January 7, 2026.According to reports from CBS News (cited by multiple outlets including Newsweek and Daily Mail), two U.S. officials briefed on his condition stated that Ross experienced internal bleeding to the torso following the encounter. The extent of the bleeding remains unclear, but he was hospitalized briefly and released the same day, as confirmed by Department of Homeland Security officials and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem.

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #610 on: January 14, 2026, 11:34:19 AM »
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #611 on: January 14, 2026, 11:39:20 AM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 14, 2026, 11:13:03 AM
I didn't see anyone asking for the agent's hospital records, even tho they could be protected under HIPAA.
Did the left know that he was hit ? 🤔

AI.
Yes, Jonathan Ross suffered internal bleeding.This refers to Jonathan Ross, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agent involved in the fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Good during an incident in Minneapolis on January 7, 2026.According to reports from CBS News (cited by multiple outlets including Newsweek and Daily Mail), two U.S. officials briefed on his condition stated that Ross experienced internal bleeding to the torso following the encounter. The extent of the bleeding remains unclear, but he was hospitalized briefly and released the same day, as confirmed by Department of Homeland Security officials and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Judge Judy

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #612 on: January 14, 2026, 11:55:18 AM »
Quote from: Three Card MNte on January 14, 2026, 11:39:20 AM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

So AI is only good when Nichi or you share it. Got it…

LOL
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #613 on: January 14, 2026, 12:03:26 PM »
If Ross suffered internal bleeding I have a 40 inch dick.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with Minnesota?
« Reply #614 on: January 14, 2026, 12:06:04 PM »
Quote from: Three Card MNte on January 14, 2026, 12:03:26 PM
If Ross suffered internal bleeding I have a 40 inch dick.

A bruise or contusion is a form of internal bleeding, no?
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